Always in the Dark: How would you make a Shadowdancer in 2E?

[Shadowbourne]

So...as the title suggests, I am wondering how we would go about making a Shadowdancer using 2E Creation?

Add on top of that...How would you make the Fetchling Ancestry?

[WatersLethe]

So, to get things started... Here's the basics of the PF1 Shadowdancer:

Hit die: d8
Requirements: Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Mobility, Stealth 5, Perform 2
Class skills: Acro, Bluff, Dipl, Disguise, Escape, Percep, Perform, Sleight of Hand, Stealth
Skill Ranks: 6 + int
BAB: 3/4
Saves: Fort Bad, Ref Good, Will Bad
Weapon prof: Rogue stuff
Armor prof: Light armor

Special abilities:
Hide in Plain Sight near dim light
Evasion/Improved Evasion
Darkvision
Uncanny Dodge/Improved Uncanny Dodge
Rogue Talents
Shadow Illusion (silent image, cha based)
Summon Shadow (Flanking buddy shadow)
Shadow Call (Shadow conjuration, cha based)
Shadow Jump (Dimension door between dim light)
Defensive roll (avoid lethal blow)
Slippery Mind (bonus against enchantment)
Shadow Power (Shadow evocation, cha based)
Shadow Master (DR while in shadow, blind on crits)

[cartmanbeck]

I think this is begging to be an archetype that has some requirements to enter. I'm thinking something like this:

Shadowdancer Dedication (Feat 4)
Prerequisites: Sneak Attack class feature, Dexterity 16
You've studied the art of the shadowdancer, and are able to use shadows to hide yourself entirely.
As long as there is a shadow being cast in your square or you are in an area of dim light, you may use the Hide action to become hidden to creatures that could otherwise see you. In addition, if you did not already have darkvision, you gain darkvision.
<Insert part about needing 2 dedication feats before you can take another blah blah>

Shadow Magic (Feat 6)
Prerequisites: Shadowdancer Dedication
Your connection to the shadow plane grants you some supernatural abilities. You gain the focus spell silend image. If you don’t already have one, you gain a focus pool of 1 Focus Point, which you can Refocus by hiding within a shadow and meditating on your connection to the shadow plane for 10 minutes.

Shadow Companion (Feat 6)
Prerequisites: Shadowdancer Dedication
You are able to conjure up a helpful shadow from the shadow plane. You gain a Shadow Companion, which you can summon from the shadow plane using 1 focus point. Use the statistics for an Ambusher animal companion of your choice, with the following modifications: The companion loses the Animal trait and gains the Undead trait. When reduced to 0 hit points, instead of being destroyed, your shadow companion is returned to the shadow plane and cannot be summoned again for 24 hours. Your shadow companion may hide itself in any shadow in its square or within an area of dim light, even if it's currently observed.

Shadow Jump (Feat 6)
Requirements: Shadowdancer Dedication
Not only can you hide within shadows, but you can use the shadow plane to travel short distances. As an <insert 2 action symbol>, you may spend a focus point to cast dimension door. You must begin and end your movement with the spell in an area of shadow, otherwise the spell fails.

Slippery Mind (Feat 8)
Prerequisites: Shadowdancer Dedication
Your mind is partially in the shadow plane, giving you a modicum of protection against mind-affecting spells. When you fail a Will save against a mind spell, you may attempt another Will save 1 round later at the same DC to end that spell's effect on you. You only get one extra chance to save against the effect.

Shadow Power (Feat 10)
Prerequisites: Shadowdancer Dedication, Shadow Magic
Your connection to the shadow plane can manifest itself in the form of raw, destructive shadowy power. As an <insert 2 action symbol>, you may spend a focus point to cast shadow blast, heightened to a spell level equal to 1/2 your level.

Shadow Master (Feat 12)
Prerequisites: Shadowdancer Dedication, Shadow Jump
You're infused with shadow, and when in darkened places, this makes you more resiliant. While in areas of dim light or shadow, you gain resistance equal to 3 + your Charisma modifier to physical damage and to Cold.

This would allow either a base Rogue, OR any class that multiclasses with Rogue, to qualify for the archetype. I think it pretty faithfully represents the 1E version. :)

[Pumpkinhead11]

Why have the sneak attack prerequisite though? Master in reflexes I imagine would work just as well.

[cartmanbeck]

Pumpkinhead11 wrote:

Why have the sneak attack prerequisite though? Master in reflexes I imagine would work just as well.

That would keep Rogues from entering the archetype until after 7th level. That's way too late for them. With Sneak Attack as your prereq, a Rogue could start into the archetype at level 4, and any other class multiclassed into Rogue could start into it after level 4, when they can pick up the Sneak Attacker feat (though you'd have to take one more Rogue Multiclass feat before you could start your Shadowdancer dedication, so actually 8th level).

[WatersLethe]

I actually dislike the Sneak Attack requirement, since nothing in Shadowdancer has anything to do with sneak attacking. I'd prefer a level requirement and expert in stealth, trained in performance...

[cartmanbeck]

Fair enough... let's try this instead:

Shadowdancer Dedication (Feat 4)
Prerequisites: Expert in Acrobatics, Expert in Stealth, Trained in Perform, Dexterity 16
You've studied the art of the shadowdancer, and are able to use shadows to hide yourself entirely.
As long as there is a shadow being cast in your square or you are in an area of dim light, you may use the Hide action to become hidden to creatures that could otherwise see you. In addition, if you did not already have darkvision, you gain darkvision.
<Insert part about needing 2 dedication feats before you can take another blah blah>

So what this means is, a Rogue would need to use two skill increases, at levels 2 and 3, to qualify to take this feat at 4. Other characters, generally, would need to wait until at least level 6, since they only get skill increases every 2 levels starting at 3.

[Perpdepog]

You might want to scale back the shadow companion some. Giving it the stats of a specialized animal companion is, in effect, giving someone at level 6 the abilities of something other classes get at level 12-16, and without having to jump through the extra feats to get their, either.

Perhaps it can be a focus power, like shadow jumping, that lets you summon a shadow for a minute, or, a bit of a radical take, gate this behind requiring an animal companion to acquire.
Though now I think on it that probably wouldn't work well since you would be paying something like four or so feats to get an animal companion to a level where it could become a shadow, not to mention the dedication feat in the first place. It would eat up too many feats to let you do anything else fun.
I think summoning a shadow for a bit with a focus point might work better, placed at the level when you could summon a creature of the shadow's level. This would make the feat level 10, at the same time a summoning spell is summoning CR4 creatures, with an automatic heightening as per focus spells at level 12 to be able to summon greater shadows, which are CR7.

[cartmanbeck]

Fair point, Perpdepog. Perhaps we can make it a scaling ability instead, though? Waiting so long to get the companion feels like it's not in the spirit of the original prestige class, I feel.

Shadow Companion (Feat 6)
Prerequisites: Shadowdancer Dedication
You are able to conjure up a helpful shadow from the shadow plane. You gain a unique Shadow Companion, which you can summon from the shadow plane using 1 focus point. After 1 minute, the companion returns to the shadow plane.
Use the statistics for an animal companion of your choice, with the following modifications: The companion loses the Animal trait and gains the Undead trait. When reduced to 0 hit points, instead of being destroyed, your shadow companion is returned to the shadow plane; you become drained 1 until you rest to regain focus, and the shadow cannot be summoned again for 24 hours.
At level 8, your shadow companion may hide itself in any shadow in its square or within an area of dim light, even if it's currently observed, and it is summoned for 10 minutes instead of 1 minute.
At level 10, increase the shadow's proficiency ranks in Stealth and Unarmored Defense to expert. In addition, when the shadow hits a creature with a primary natural attack, it must succeed at a basic Fortitude save or become drained 1. This ability does not stack with itself.

[Perpdepog]

The original has you gaining your shadow companion at third level, which is actually ninth level since you can only go into the class at 6th level at your earliest.

[cartmanbeck]

Eh, fair enough. I still like the idea of getting it a little earlier and having it scale, since you're taking this as an archetype, not a prestige class.

[Perpdepog]

That's fair. I see archetypes and prestige classes as being one and the same in PF2E, myself, at least until we actually get a prestige class to compare against.

[Temperans]

This version of shadow companion is way more lenient than the pf1e version. Not only is it more reliable (24 hr cooldown instead of 30 days) but the penalty is only until you rest (as opposed to permanent).
On the other hand, the jump distance is much larger but also has a higher action cost.

So my idea/question, why not base Shadowdancer around Dimensional Jump PF1e feats? Stuff like: Shadow Jump feat 10: As 1 action spend 1 focus to teleport up to your speed the start and end location must be in shadow, you dont provoke for movement. At Master Acrobatics you can teleport up to twice your speed. At Legendart Acrobatics you can teleport up to 4 times your speed.

Shadow Dance (Stance) feat 12: As 1 action spend 1 focus point, for the next minute you can Shadow Jump up to 10 ft without spending focus points. Master in Perform increases the distance to 15 ft, Legendary in Perform increases the distance to 20 ft.

Shadow Storm feat 16: Gain +1 focus point. While using the Shadow Dance feat you may pay an extra focus point, if you do you may perform a strike whenever you jump. You provide flanking from all the positions you teleported to, this does not let you flank with yourself.

* Overall, the idea is that this feat chain let's you choose between distance travel or combat mobility.

** Values could definitely change, I'm not sure how strong stride+strike x3 is at lv 16.

[cartmanbeck]

Good suggestions, Temperans. I agree that the shadow companion is more lenient with letting it die, but honestly I always thought it was unfair to make you wait a whole month to get back a key class ability.

[Temperans]

How about split the difference, it respawns in 2 weeks and the penalty lasts until it respawns.

A more complicated method would be it taking a month but using downtime and a focus point can summon it back that same night. The penalty would last until it returns or 1 week has passed which ever is worse (It can still be cured as normal); This simulates your body recovering from the event taking some time and requiring the shadow to be in the same plane.