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Rogues have too many skills. This exchanges breadth for depth.
Trained in Stealth
Trained in the skills granted by your Racket
Trained in a number of additional skills equal to 4 plus your Intelligence modifier
Choose one skill you are trained in. You gain expert proficiency with that skill at 1st level. At 5th level, your proficiency with your signature skill improves to master, and at 13th level, to legendary.
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Sure, you could take extra Lore skills.
But the idea here is that, like the fighter getting early access to increased training proficiency in weapons, the rogue chooses a single skill to excel at, and is always 1-2 levels ahead of the curve.
(For comparison, other classes can become expert/master/legendary at 3/7/15).
Cheers!
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I don't like the idea of the Rogue being able to outskill someone just by virtue of being a rogue.
The current skill gap is only really tenable because it makes them good at more skills rather than just flat out better.
Squiggit,
Do you feel the same way about fighters and martial weapon proficiency?
Or monks and unarmored proficiency?
Not really an accurate comparison, as a fighter's enhanced proficiency is more or less their equivalent to a barbarian's rage or ranger's hunt or rogue's sneak attack or swashbuckler's finishers. The numbers don't always quite shake out that way, but they're all essentially built to be different ways to accomplish the same goal.
Your proposal just gives rogues an unequivocal advantage in an area of the game where classes are otherwise designed to have at least some degree of parity with each other.
I agree it can be frustrating to essentially run out of skills, but giving rogues breadth rather than power is a good way to make them feel like exceptional skill monkeys without necessarily leaving them invalidating other characters' skill builds through raw numbers.
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Squiggit,
Do you feel the same way about fighters and martial weapon proficiency?
Or monks and unarmored proficiency?
Not really an accurate comparison, as a fighter's enhanced proficiency is more or less their equivalent to a barbarian's rage or ranger's hunt or rogue's sneak attack or swashbuckler's finishers. The numbers don't always quite shake out that way, but they're all essentially built to be different ways to accomplish the same goal.
Your proposal just gives rogues an unequivocal advantage in an area of the game where classes are otherwise designed to have at least some degree of parity with each other.
I agree it can be frustrating to essentially run out of skills, but giving rogues breadth rather than power is a good way to make them feel like exceptional skill monkeys without necessarily leaving them invalidating other characters' skill builds through raw numbers.
If you don't feel it is as accurate a comparison because it's limited to specific weapon groups, what about saying the Rogue's Signature Skill can only be Stealth or a Skill from their Racket (Intimidation for a Ruffian, Deception or Diplomacy for a Scoundrel, and Thievery for a Thief) This would thus limits the Rogue to specializing in Roguish skills, not just any trained skill.
Hasn't the rogue already 1 skill per lvl instead 1 every 2?
Seems enough.
A rogue becomes legendary in 6 skills ( and master in 1 if you take a dedication which gives expert in a skill ) while any other class gets only 3 skills legendary rank.
So a rogue already has 100% more.
The rogue, unless I've missed something, can only get Legendary in 5 skills rather than everyone else's 3. Unless there is an option I've missed.
Rogues are still subject to the rule they can't take a Legendary skill increase until level 15, meaning they only get 5.
Still, your point largely remains that rogues have the most skills.
But I honestly wouldn't mind letting rogues get early access with 1 skill in addition to having the most skills at highest levels of proficiency. But the rogue also isn't in a bad spot either.
My rogue in my group is tied for about the largest number of skills, but I have int of 10 and haven't really invested in skills beyond the rogue kit (int 10), though I do have the Human trait Untrained Improvisation which effectively makes you trained at all skill -2 points.
I do generally prefer depth rather than breadth, but the rogues not in a bad spot in my opinion.
Mea culpa. I've been working too many hours and not getting enough sleep the last few weeks. I don't know where my head was at on that math.
I think I didn't get past the skill increases from levels 2 to 6 which, to pay attention that you get enough from 7 to 14 to get a 6th skill up master, assuming that you start with at least 6 trained skills, but you start with 7 trained.