Metamagic Feat Question / Clarification


Rules Questions


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

If a PC takes the Persistent Feat at 1st level and uses it on a spell..my understanding then is said spell takes up 2 spell slots higher. Does that mean a 1st level character can no longer cast the spell?


It mean that u need a slot of lv 2 (for spell lv 0) and a slot of lv 3 for a spell lv 1 and since he is at lv 1 he can't use the metamagic because he don't have the required spell slot


Professor wrote:
If a PC takes the Persistent Feat at 1st level and uses it on a spell..my understanding then is said spell takes up 2 spell slots higher. Does that mean a 1st level character can no longer cast the spell?

When casting a spell with metamagic for the arcane prepared spellcaster tradition (i.e. wizard, etc.), the spell is memorized as its own spell in an appropriate slot for the metamagic "penalty." I call it a penalty because the spell still acts in all cases as its normal spell level except which slot it takes. So, a first level spell augmented with any metamagic feat that is +1 level will take a level 2 memorized spell slot for the day. Since a first level character does not have second level spell slots, the wizard will not be able to do so until at least third level when the wizard is capable of memorizing second level spells. This in no way prevents the wizard from preparing the spell normally in a first level slot without benefit of the metamagic feat.

A spontaneous caster, such as a sorceror, does not memorize spells ahead of time, but has the option of applying a metamagic feat as a part of casting the spell. The drawback here (or penalty) is that it still takes a spell slot of the higher level as indicated by the metamagic feat, and it also increases the casting time as follows: a standard action spell is now a full round action and a full round action spell becomes a full round action plus another full round action, any spell that takes minutes or more to cast all add one additional full round action to the casting time. It should be stated that if the quicken metamagic feat is used, the extra rounds penalty is removed and the spell is still cast a as swift action. In this tradition, the spellcaster is not able to cast that first level spell with metamagic until fourth level when the spontaneous caster has access to second level spells so that the appropriate slot is available.

But you have bonus spell slots for a high spellcaster attribute you say? Those bonus slots are also not available until you can cast the appropriate level spells. The exception to this is if your spells per day/spells known chart has a 0 instead of a -, then you can use the bonus slots as the 0 gives the access, but with 0 normally available without a high attribute (confused yet?).

I have seen spell lists in published adventures for spontaneous casters in the past which list spells known with the metamagic feat already applied, however, I am currently unable to find the rule which allows it.

Liberty's Edge

Thedmstrikes wrote:
I have seen spell lists in published adventures for spontaneous casters in the past which list spells known with the metamagic feat already applied, however, I am currently unable to find the rule which allows it.

There is a 3.5 feat that does that, and, if I recall correctly, a Pathfinder archetype, but I don't recall the name.

Besides that, Paizo sometime lists the spontaneous spells with the metamagic already applied for ease of reference.


I'd hazard to guess that's an editorial mistake/simplification as the caster in question probably uses it in the module/AP in that manner in the "box text" of the encounter (or ease of reference as Diego puts it).

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