Weapon / Armor Proficiency

[Jedi Maester]

As classes level, they get proficiency bonuses to their class equipment. But depending on the class, this makes little sense. For example, a wizard takes the armor proficiency generally feat to be trained in light armor. However, their level 13 defensive robes ability makes them expert only in unarmored. I'm curious why this design decision was made? Why not make it so that you become expert in any armor you're already trained in?

[NemoNoName]

Because Wizards are totally OP when they have access to weapons without Fighter specialisation, or something.

[The Gleeful Grognard]

Design space options. It allows them to include archetypes, feats and other options at a later point to improve individual items you may be proficient in or grant other proficiency while also retaining some of the purpose and theme of other classes.

Personally I will probably be running a houserule that someone can forgo their class proficiency when it comes to weapons to increase their chosen feat trained weapon proficiency instead. Although this is only temporary until real options exist.

Armour I am not touching, as while runes don't worry me overly I have no desire to try and balance around magical items that could become incredibly desirable.

[Deadmanwalking]

This has been discussed quite a bit in other threads.

The short version is that we can't read the designers minds and don't know why they did it this way, the rest is speculation.

[Wheldrake]

Multiclassing your wizard with a fighter archetype looks like it gives you access to all the armor you can carry. FWIW.

With no more arcane spell failure bothers.

[ChibiNyan]

Wheldrake wrote:

Multiclassing your wizard with a fighter archetype looks like it gives you access to all the armor you can carry. FWIW.

With no more arcane spell failure bothers.

Fighter dedication gives no armor whatsoever.

[Wheldrake]

Hey, you'rfe right, got it mixed up with Champion dedication.

[Grave Knight]

What is even the point of these feats if there are better ways to get the same thing and for it not to become obsolete after a few levels?

I just want to make a Rogue with a whip but I have to dip into Fighter just so the whip isn't trash.

[Lucas Yew]

Niche protection? Which I think is perfectly fine in a class based game, but only such games. Especially since PF2 did away with Lego brick multiclassing (which I have mixed feelings on).

[Malk_Content]

Grave Knight wrote:

What is even the point of these feats if there are better ways to get the same thing and for it not to become obsolete after a few levels?

I just want to make a Rogue with a whip but I have to dip into Fighter just so the whip isn't trash.

Becomes obsolete after 1-10 levels depending on when you pick it up. It lets you spend a General Feat to start with, and thus lets you play with things for awhile before having to pick up fighter dedication. It gives build leeway.

For example, I can get Weapon Proficiency with my Human at level 1, letting me begin play with my preferred weapon. Then I can retrain that at level 2,4,6,8 or 10 (whenever is best for my built) when I get the fighter dedication. Without the general feat I'd be forced to use my level 2 slot if I wanted it right away, forgoing the flexibility.

[Gisher]

Grave Knight wrote:

What is even the point of these feats if there are better ways to get the same thing and for it not to become obsolete after a few levels?

I just want to make a Rogue with a whip but I have to dip into Fighter just so the whip isn't trash.

Fighter Dedication doesn't help much.

Level 1: Trained in Rogue Weapons. Untrained in whip.
Level 2: Take Fighter Dedication so you are also Trained in whip.
...
Level 5: Weapon Tricks ups your Rogue Weapons to Expert and lets you apply Critical Specialization Effects in some cases. None of this applies to your whip.
...
Level 7: Weapon Specialization gives you +2 for your Rogue Weapons. Not for your whip.
...
Level 12: Take Diverse Weapon Expert to finally become Expert in your whip (7 levels behind your Rogue Weapons). Your whip finally gets the +2 from Weapon Specialization (5 levels late), but you still don't get the Critical Specialization Effects from Weapon Tricks.
Level 13: Get Master Proficiency for your Rogue Weapons. You're now getting +3 from Weapon Specialization for those weapons. The whip is still +2.
...
Level 15: Greater Weapon Specialization is now giving your Rogue Weapons +6 damage and your whip only +4.

So you end up with your whip doing 2 points less damage from Greater Weapon Specialization, one proficiency level below your Rogue Weapons, and unable to utilize Weapon Tricks.

The whip is only getting the same benefits as your Rogue Weapons at levels 2-4. Blech.