Hello
1)
Attack Action: An attack action is a type of standard action. Some combat options can modify only this specific sort of action. When taking an attack action, you can apply all appropriate options that modify an attack action. Thus, you can apply both Greater Weapon of the Chosen and Vital Strike to the same attack, as both modify your attack action. You can apply these to any combat option that takes the place of a melee attack made using an attack action (such as the trip combat maneuver), though options that increase damage don’t cause attacks to deal damage if they wouldn’t otherwise do so (such as Vital Strike and trip). You can’t combine options that modify attack actions with standard actions that aren’t attack actions, such as Cleave. Source: PZO9468
Why can not you combine Vital Strike (action attack) with Cleave (standard action), but can you combine Vital Strike with alchemist bombs?
2)
Is it necessary to announce Cleaving Finish or does it apply whenever you kill someone?
Thank you.
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Cleave is NOT the attack action. It is it’s own standard action. For that matter I don’t believe you can vital strike with a bomb for the same reason- they use the thrown splash weapon rules, not an attack action.
Cleaning Finish can be used once per turn. You don’t need to announce anything. Greater cleaving finish can be used any number of times per round.
Cleave is NOT the attack action. It is it’s own standard action. For that matter I don’t believe you can vital strike with a bomb for the same reason- they use the thrown splash weapon rules, not an attack action.
Cleaning Finish can be used once per turn. You don’t need to announce anything. Greater cleaving finish can be used any number of times per round.
The alchemist say:
"The damage of an alchemist’s bomb increases by 1d6 points at every odd-numbered alchemist level (this bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit or by using feats such as Vital Strike)."Does this mean that Vital Strike can be used? What do you think?
Thx.
about the whole vital strike mess. better think of it like so.
vital strike uses the 'attack action' (which is not the same as an 'attack'). that is a standard action worth of an action (same as casting most spells).
since you normally have only one standard action in a turn and even if you have more you can not combine two at once. say you can't combine a spell cast with a standard action to attack. cleave and 'mixing a bomb and throwing it' are each one standard action by themselves so unless you have some kind of ability that let you mash up 2 different standard action into one action each must be used separately.
the bit about how the extra damage is not multiplied by vital strike. it only mean that if you somehow CAN use your bomb damage along with a normal attack (say some arch type class ability to add the bomb to your arrows and such. many exist) it still won't multiply the extra damage of the higher levels of alchemist.
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I think some people have the misconception that making an attack as part of a standard action is the same as the attack action, which really isn’t the case.
Using scorching ray, using vital strike, using cleave, and throwing a bomb are all standard actions that make the player roll an attack but only one of those four listed is the attack action- vital strike. As such, none of the attacks above can be combined.
An ability that can be added to an attack, such as power attack, can be used with Vital Strike; it can be used with any attack roll that meets the ability requisites (melee weapon attack for power attack, for example.)
I’m not sure of any other feats except for the vital strike line that specifically modifies the attack action, though I wouldn’t be surprised if there is something I’m missing. Based on the wording of whatever those abilities might be, vital strike could work with those too, but I do imagine it comes down to how the action is actually modified.
about the whole vital strike mess. better think of it like so.
vital strike uses the 'attack action' (which is not the same as an 'attack'). that is a standard action worth of an action (same as casting most spells).
since you normally have only one standard action in a turn and even if you have more you can not combine two at once. say you can't combine a spell cast with a standard action to attack. cleave and 'mixing a bomb and throwing it' are each one standard action by themselves so unless you have some kind of ability that let you mash up 2 different standard action into one action each must be used separately.the bit about how the extra damage is not multiplied by vital strike. it only mean that if you somehow CAN use your bomb damage along with a normal attack (say some arch type class ability to add the bomb to your arrows and such. many exist) it still won't multiply the extra damage of the higher levels of alchemist.
A perfect answer. Thank you!!!
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There is, as far as i know only one prestige class that alters the hows of vital strike.
Heritor Knight, and its profoundly limited in god and weapon choice.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/prestige-classes/other-paizo/e-h/heritor-kn ight/
That said, i still really want to make one I'm almost convinced you can make a utility fighter with that PRC, the Iomedae divine fighting style, and a few other things like the deadly stroke feat chain
Cleave maintains some usefulness when you can apply vital strike to it.
The alchemist say:
"The damage of an alchemist’s bomb increases by 1d6 points at every odd-numbered alchemist level (this bonus damage is not multiplied on a critical hit or by using feats such as Vital Strike)."Does this mean that Vital Strike can be used? What do you think?
Thx.
I think this makes it clear that vital strike is a go with a thrown bomb.
Generally, based on its wording, I assume that vital strike is compatible with any single-attack standard action (so no cleave, no charge, no volleys of scorching ray). The problem is, vital strike is so poorly worded that it's subject to tons of ambiguity. For example, I really don't see the whole issue with vital strike being incompatible with spring attack. They're hinging that interpretation on such a fine line that it's really not evident in the rules to anything but a highly tortured reading that probably requires an insider understanding and more "hidden" rules like the whole 2 hands of effort thing. So I just say screw it and allow vital strike with spring attack...
I think this makes it clear that vital strike is a go with a thrown bomb.
Not it's not, it's merely an ill-thought of example.
Generally, based on its wording, I assume that vital strike is compatible with any single-attack standard action (so no cleave, no charge, no volleys of scorching ray).
Sorry, but this assumption is just utterly wrong. "When you use the attack action" - any time you use any action granted by a feat/class feature/item, or use any kind of full-round action like charge or a full-attack action, you are not using the attack action. Spring Attack says "As a full-round action", which is without even the slightest doubt not the attack action. Basically, when somethign starts with "as a <action>", you can't use vital strike with it.
There is no ambiguity about Vital Strike (well, apart from weird stuff like double barrel firearms or Heritor Knight, but then the ambiguity comes from those things). Seriously, none. Every time a question like this comes up, it's someone not understanding the rules (which are badly written). The rules aren't unclear, though, just confusing.
Using scorching ray, using vital strike, using cleave, and throwing a bomb are all standard actions that make the player roll an attack but only one of those four listed is the attack action- vital strike. As such, none of the attacks above can be combined.
I'd like to clarify this a bit: For Cleave or bombs, you use the special standard actions the feat or class feature respectively grants. For Scorching Ray, you use the "cast a spell" action, and for Vital Strike, you use the "attack" action. There is no "use Vital Strike" action, it's a conditional i.e. triggered ability. To be technically correct, you declare that you use the attack action, and then declare that you use Vital Strike. You'd do exactly the same for GWotC, by the way. Similarily for using disarm/sunder/trip as the attack action.
Whatever the attack action is, it ain't defined in my CRB.
I gather, from d20pfsrd, that they may have clarified that in 2015 with the Melee Tactics Toolbox, but that doesn't even need to be respected in PFS unless someone brings along the book as an Additional Resource.
Given the fact that it was specifically included as an example in the Advanced Players Guide for the alchemist and never edited away via errata, I'd still go with the assumption that the authors and editors of that class thought it was perfectly cromulent.
So, yeah, unless you're using a non-core, paperback supplement - I'm still going with annoying ambiguous. Just get your GM to be consistent about it because it's not unbalancing to apply it to a single attack taken in a round whether it's sword blow, a bomb, or they manage to move a bit before and a bit after the attack.
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Whatever the attack action is, it ain't defined in my CRB.
Did you rip out page 182?
Whatever the attack action is, it ain't defined in my CRB.
Not to pile on, but there's a table of actions in the Combat chapter of your Core Rulebook. Look under "Standard Actions" for "Attack". There's also a subsection for (mostly) each of the actions in that table, and one of them is headed "Attack".
This isn't something to feel bad about being confused about. It's quite possibly the oldest and most frequently-asked question on the rules forum--hence the FAQ, which was published woefully late.