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I believe Purple Duck Games is making Pathfinder 1.5 or D&D 3.8 (if Pathfinder was D&D 3.75).
Dropdeadstudios is still working on expanding Spheres and isn't looking to jump ship yet.
Rogue Genius Games plans to continue Pathfinder Kickstarter for small projects like the Gruesome Foes Templates campaign that is currently ongoing.
Even Paizo acquiesced to give Pathfinder players a "Bestiary" for the Kingmaker crowdfunding campaign. Honestly, when they announced they were going to offer a 5e conversion along with the 2E book, I was about to delete Paizo from my bookmarks and just go all third party. Since they're offering Pathfinder players that have been trying to get the Kingmaker adventure for years some small concession, I will stick around for now.
I hope they succeed and everybody loves the game, but there's something disingenuous about promoting how great a game is for ten years and then suddenly changing course and saying, "this game's full of problems, so we're dropping it."
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They arent moving on because they think its bad (they are very proud of it).
They're moving on because it is no longer selling well enough. It doesn't matter how strongly I like PF1, my $ is only spent once. Demand has faded even if our enthusiasm didnt.
I didnt want PF2 but I definitely dont want people to lose their jobs trying to sell product for which demand has faded.
Legendary Games have a pretty spectacular back catalog.
I think I remember them saying that they'll continue with PF1 support if people keep buying it. Irrespective, theres a lot there now thats really high quality.
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So you say. An alternative would have been to reduce Pathfinder to a bi-monthly Adventure line alongside the new books for the new system rather than dropping it all. Keep making adventures. We don't have to have brand new crunch every month. Let the 3pp do that while you focus on the new game.
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So you say.
So they say. Jason Bulmahn, Erik Mona and James Jacobs have all said how proud they are of PF1 since announcing PF2.
"this game's full of problems, so we're dropping it." isn't a fair statement of their position.
I totally get wishing PF1 was still supported, but there's no point pretending Paizo weren't subject to economic factors. I haven't had any discussion with them about sales or anything but there are a number of 3PP who have all told me how PF1 sales have plummeted in recent years. Maybe that wasn't true for Paizo and they decided to go with PF2 anyhow despite sales numbers holding strong, but doesn't it seem much more likely that sales were declining across the board?
Going the PF2 route has no doubt significantly damaged their revenue for the last several months. It's really hard to see why they would have chosen that entirely predictable loss of revenue if there was a reasonable way forward to preserve the old whilst capturing the new.
An alternative would have been to reduce Pathfinder to a bi-monthly Adventure line alongside the new books for the new system rather than dropping it all. Keep making adventures. We don't have to have brand new crunch every month. Let the 3pp do that while you focus on the new game.
Lisa Stevens is on record as saying that there were many different reasons for TSR's decline but that producing multiple lines which were too closely in competition with one another was the single biggest factor. (She was the person appointed by Wizards of the Coast to look through TSR's history and work out what went wrong).
Producing two fantasy games Side-by-side would necessarily reduce demand for both, which would reduce the number of books they print, which would increase the per-unit-cost which would reduce profit. This was a major factor in the "against" column when they decided on whether to produce Starfinder. The closer the games are to one another in genre, the bigger a negative factor it is.
I'm really glad to see there are companies continuing to publish 1E material. As someone who loathes 5E with a passion, Pathfinder was really the only thing that kept me from completely throwing in with the OSR community. That might change now if things go the way I fear they will. I've kept up with all the updates, and Pathfinder 2E is something I want nothing to do with. I'll always love Golarion as a setting, but unless I decide to pick up a new Pathfinder Tale novel, Paizo won't be getting any more of my money. Pretending to solve problems that don't exist just so you can make your fantasy game compatible with your sci-fi game is not the way to keep my business.
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I'm really glad to see there are companies continuing to publish 1E material. As someone who loathes 5E with a passion, Pathfinder was really the only thing that kept me from completely throwing in with the OSR community. That might change now if things go the way I fear they will. I've kept up with all the updates, and Pathfinder 2E is something I want nothing to do with. I'll always love Golarion as a setting, but unless I decide to pick up a new Pathfinder Tale novel, Paizo won't be getting any more of my money. Pretending to solve problems that don't exist just so you can make your fantasy game compatible with your sci-fi game is not the way to keep my business.
Your post would probably make any sense if PF2 and Starfinder were in fact compatible. Which they aren't, by any indication we've had so far.
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I normally stick to Paizo only materials, but from what I have seen of 2E, I currently have zero interest in switching over to it. The core math of the system is just not something I find appealing.
I really hope someone pops up to carry on the 3.X mantle the way Paizo did when D&D 4E came out, otherwise I may end up not playing TTRPGs again for a few years.
I'm really glad to see there are companies continuing to publish 1E material. As someone who loathes 5E with a passion, Pathfinder was really the only thing that kept me from completely throwing in with the OSR community. That might change now if things go the way I fear they will. I've kept up with all the updates, and Pathfinder 2E is something I want nothing to do with. I'll always love Golarion as a setting, but unless I decide to pick up a new Pathfinder Tale novel, Paizo won't be getting any more of my money. Pretending to solve problems that don't exist just so you can make your fantasy game compatible with your sci-fi game is not the way to keep my business.Your post would probably make any sense if PF2 and Starfinder were in fact compatible. Which they aren't, by any indication we've had so far.
Yup. There are similarities but I suspect those come from being made by groups which at least communicate and which probably overlap. That the groups making PF2 and Starfinder agree on what some of the problems are shouldn't be a surprise, and that some people from outside disagree (MidSouthGuy & me at least - though we may not agree with each other!) on what the problems are shouldn't surprise either.
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I normally stick to Paizo only materials, but from what I have seen of 2E, I currently have zero interest in switching over to it. The core math of the system is just not something I find appealing.
I really hope someone pops up to carry on the 3.X mantle the way Paizo did when D&D 4E came out, otherwise I may end up not playing TTRPGs again for a few years.
Well, given that GenCon is around the corner and no 3PP has yet decided to tap into the infinite wellspring of income that the "abandoned" PF1 fans supposedly are by announcing a slightly tweaked reprint of PF1, you might as well prepare for those cold, long dark nights without love, happiness and d20s.
Well, given that GenCon is around the corner and no 3PP has yet decided to tap into the infinite wellspring of income that the "abandoned" PF1 fans supposedly are by announcing a slightly tweaked reprint of PF1, you might as well prepare for those cold, long dark nights without love, happiness and d20s.I normally stick to Paizo only materials, but from what I have seen of 2E, I currently have zero interest in switching over to it. The core math of the system is just not something I find appealing.
I really hope someone pops up to carry on the 3.X mantle the way Paizo did when D&D 4E came out, otherwise I may end up not playing TTRPGs again for a few years.
If I had the technical skill and the money to get it published, I would gleefully produce a retro-clone of PF1/3.5 for the abandoned fans of the system. Sadly I have neither. On a side note, I would also include a bestiary in the corebook so it would be a complete game in one volume. That was one of the very few things I was excited about potentially happening with PF2, but to the best of my knowledge that isn't going to happen.
Well, given that GenCon is around the corner and no 3PP has yet decided to tap into the infinite wellspring of income that the "abandoned" PF1 fans supposedly are by announcing a slightly tweaked reprint of PF1, you might as well prepare for those cold, long dark nights without love, happiness and d20s.I normally stick to Paizo only materials, but from what I have seen of 2E, I currently have zero interest in switching over to it. The core math of the system is just not something I find appealing.
I really hope someone pops up to carry on the 3.X mantle the way Paizo did when D&D 4E came out, otherwise I may end up not playing TTRPGs again for a few years.
As mentioned above, Purple Duck Games are looking to produce a slightly tweaked game that’ll be more compatible with PF1 than PF2 is going to be. I don’t know much about the project, though I believe they’ve started up a Patreon. I think that’d be a good place to start looking.
There isn’t anyone with the resources Paizo had when they launched Pathfinder, so it’s going to be slower going than a big, first GenCon release.
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As someone who went back to 3.5 after years of 5e and finding it too light on content (and other RPGs not scratching my D&D itch), I found the lack of new releases and continued support liberating. It was content complete. I didn't have to worry about players coming in with the new hotness plucking that one feat or rule to use for their characters. I don't have to anticipate the next book(s) releasing in the near future excited about the supposed new material while thinking the stuff that came before is old hat already. I never have to worry about things getting nerfed or new lists and lists of errata to contend with. And of course, my wallet is very happy. ;)
It's done; complete. I've barely used 1% of the material of a near complete 3.5 collection, always chasing the new releases without really enjoying what I had already. Or quickly abandoning it hopping over to other RPGs, or Pathfinder, or new editions D&D. But now I'm back and I can now sit down and relax and enjoy the mountain of material to my hearts content without outside interference. And I can see the same thing from PF 1e once the last book is released. ;)
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Jon Brazer Enterprises is sticking with Pathfinder 1e and we are moving forward with our Shadowsfall setting. Read all about it at JonBrazer.com.
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but there are a number of 3PP who have all told me how PF1 sales have plummeted in recent years
True, but even more true is this: sales at Paizo's website are downright terrible to non-existent. JBE's Pathfinder sales are down some (not much, but not bad either) at DriveThruRPG and the Open Gaming Store, but our sales at Paizo can only be described as a lead balloon tied to stone. I have heard the exact same thing from literally every publisher I talked to and from those that talked to other publishers that I had not. And it all started when they changed their website.
For some context, The Book of the River Nations sold so many copies here, it was bringing me in more money than DriveThruRPG for a while. When that died down, it settled into a solid number 2, with the Open Gaming Store occasionally giving it a run for it's money.
Since the new site went live, I saw an immediate hit to my sales and they've only gotten worse from there. At this point, I am considering no longer uploading products to Paizo's website because the time investment is no longer worth it.
I made a number of suggestions years ago for things to help with sales (footers that help direct people to other products, improved backend information so we could see info on sales, etc) and they've never been implement. Paizo has stopped the store blog which pointed people to new products on a daily basis and was a vehicle for highlighting (if infrequently) Pathfinder Compatible products. Add in the fact you that that DriveThruRPG has Print in Demand options and the Open Gaming Store allows the try before you buy of d20pfsrd and Paizo's website looks to be the one that never kept up with the times, so customers go elsewhere. Then the new website made it more confusing.
Paizo has always been dependent on their webstore, even when they sold dungeon and dragon magazines. If their website is not working as much as a revenue source for all these publishers for all these reasons, what do you think it is doing to Paizo's sales? Direct sales has always been a part of their game plan. While I don't know their numbers, I can't imagine their website is helping them any.
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I certainly miss the sidebar and the ease of getting to the blog. I presume there’s some clever way to see them, but I only notice blogs now if the discussion goes on for a long time. I used to read the 3PP, PF-compatible blog whenever it came out, but I don’t remember the last time I saw one.
I’ll pile on and say the links to various product groups are labeled inconsistently, and don’t always work.
Good to hear that some companies are supporting 1st edition, I know purple duck games is working on a cleaned up version of 1e, but I wonder if anyone else is.
Anyway I've been doing a little research into pathfinder sales, mostly through ICv2 so far. There has been a drop in pathfinder sales, but I'm not sure how bad it is. 2017 sales still looked good (3rd place overall). Of course I'm likely not seeing the overall picture here, or how bad it actually is, since I'm new to this kind of research. As a footnote fantasy grounds still has the original pathfinder rpg as the second most played game on their VTT.
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And it all started when they changed their website.
Well, yeah.
No way to tell if it's deliberate, but finding 3rd-party product even if you know it exists has become less intuitive. Obfuscated.
The screen real estate that used to be diverse and exposed product is now consumed by a few sliding panels that I - at least - already know about. Information density has plunged, but that's the modern web for you.
Coincidentally, the push to modernize the web site for PF2 also acted as a nail in the coffin for PF1.
I don't have a suggestion for you moving forward, but I appreciate that you are.
I don't have a suggestion for you moving forward, but I appreciate that you are.
I do, as a matter of fact! *smiles*
Download our PDFs during The Not Going to PaizoCon 2019 Sale! is going on now at JonBrazer.com. All our Pathfinder PDFs over $2 are available for download at 60% off their regular price. And be sure to follow along over at the JBE Blog for new Pathfinder material, preview, news, and more.