I have a question:
We are going to start our first game of pathfinder soon and i want to play an Arcane Trickster. In combat i want to sneak attack with all kinds of rays (starting with ray of frost and later scorching ray).
Most guides for the arcane trickster i have seen include at either 1 lvl rogue/1 lvl assasin or 3 levels of rogue to get the +2D6 sneak attack damage.
Would it not be sufficient to take 1 lvl of rogue and the "accomplished sneak attacker" feat?
Right now i am thinking of:
1 Rogue (1) (accomplished sneak attacker)
2 Sorcerer (1)
3 Sorcerer (2)
4 Sorcerer (3)
5 Sorcerer (4)
6 Arcane Trickster (1)
7 Arcane Trickster (2)
8 Shadow Dancer (1) --> Hide in plain sight
9 Shadow Dancer (2) --> Evasion, Uncanny Dodge
10 Arcane Trickster (from here till end of campaign)
What do you think?
lets count what you have (say level 17 going up to 10 levels of trickster so 7 more levels from where you stopped counting).
caster level 14.
highest spell level up to 7th.
can not cast in armor without taking arcane check fail checks. get mage armor spell for 14 hours per casting
sneak attacks at level 17 = 7d6.(with feat)
bab +8.
evasion,hide in plain sight,uncanny dodge.
no rogue talents,Danger(trap) sense and if unchained rogue used no dex for melee damage,rogue edge or Debilitating injury.
on the other hand taking eldritch scoundrel rogue and said feat at level 3, will net you at level 17
going 4 rogue, 10 arcane trickster then 3 more eldritch scoundrel -skipping the shadow dancer, for sake of more caster level and sneak, but can be traded if needed. you'll get evasion and can get uncunny from talent. will net you :
caster level 17.
highest spell level up to 6th. (a down grade from above.)
can not cast in armor without taking arcane check fail checks. get mage armor spell for 17 hours per casting.
sneak attack at level 17 : 8d6 (with feat)
bab +10
evasion,1 given talent (can be used to get uncanny dodge. and allow for taking extra talent feat) alarm sense (replace Danger\trap sense) and if unchained rogue used you get dex for 1 melee damage,rogue edge and Debilitating injury.
all in all for not getting 7th level spells you get higher caster level (so more boom for the spells you use) sneak attack, bab and you have talents opening up, which are a lot better then feats so is great. (talents to get sneak attack on first round even if not first?)
As i said, i have never played the P&P-Version of this game but the main reason i chose the sorcerer was the fact that i get to cast an unlimited number of cantrips and can freely chose which spells to cast from my slots.
While your version is certainly more effective with regard to sneak attacks and caster level, i think that he will, especially on low levels, be more or less spent after 1 battle unless i ask the rest of the group to constantly sit and let me memorize my spells?
Do i make an error in judgement here?
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I have a question:
We are going to start our first game of pathfinder soon and i want to play an Arcane Trickster. In combat i want to sneak attack with all kinds of rays (starting with ray of frost and later scorching ray).
Most guides for the arcane trickster i have seen include at either 1 lvl rogue/1 lvl assasin or 3 levels of rogue to get the +2D6 sneak attack damage.
Would it not be sufficient to take 1 lvl of rogue and the "accomplished sneak attacker" feat?Right now i am thinking of:
1 Rogue (1) (accomplished sneak attacker)
2 Sorcerer (1)
3 Sorcerer (2)
4 Sorcerer (3)
5 Sorcerer (4)
6 Arcane Trickster (1)
7 Arcane Trickster (2)
8 Shadow Dancer (1) --> Hide in plain sight
9 Shadow Dancer (2) --> Evasion, Uncanny Dodge
10 Arcane Trickster (from here till end of campaign)What do you think?
Those guides were likely written before the introduction of the accomplished sneak attacker feat. You are correct in thinking the feat +1 level in a sneak attack class is sufficient. I will point out that accomplished sneak attacker isn't doing anything for you at 1st and 2nd level.You could take it at 3rd level instead meaning you can take something else you'll actually benefit from at first level.
I wouldn't bother with the shadow dancer levels. They don't grant caster level and at that level you can get invisibility and grab a ring of evasion making the abilities you're getting from it fairly redundant. At 9th level you can even get greater invisibility meaning you wouldn't even need to "re-hide". What's more the 10th level ability that arcane trickster grants you is quite nice, there's no reason to delay getting it.
as zza ni pointed out unless you want/need spells higher then 6th level then you're probably better off taking eldritch scoundrel. Another option would be Magus. On the other hand, if you do want high level spells then just do Rogue(1)/Wizard(3). This gets you into the prestige class quicker while only missing one caster level.
I would suggest something like the following
Full Caster Arcane Trickster (Rogue/Magus)
Key concepts: Arcane Trickster at earliest lowest possible level
Class: Rogue or Magus(4), Arcane Trickster(10), Evangelist(4)
Archetype(s): Eldritch Scoundrel(Rogue), Greensting Slayer(Magus)
Feats: Spell Focus[Evocation](1st), Accomplished Sneak Attacker(3rd), Varisian tattoo(5th), Intensified Spell(7th), Spell Specialization(9th), Greater Spell Specialization(11th), Fiendish Obedience[Andirifkhu](13th)
Suggested Feats: Intensified Spell-Like Ability, Burning Spell (Metamagic), Elemental Spell (Metamagic), Quicken Spell (Metamagic), Bloatmage Initiate, Empowered Spell, Piercing Spell, Spell Perfection
Suggested Gear: Headband of Ninjitsu, Vest of the Cockroach
Key Features: • Casting is never interrupted for the class in question until high level
• Gets full sneak attack progression at all levels.
now, there is a potential sticking point for magus. The way Greensting slayer is worded it can be interpreted that it doesn't actually give you the sneak attack class feature, meaning it wouldn't qualify you for arcane trickster. Most DMs would probably be fine with it qualifying but it is something to be aware of.
I will point out that accomplished sneak attacker isn't doing anything for you at 1st and 2nd level.
1. Would it not allow me to cast tons of ray of frost with 2D6+1D3 cold damge at lvl1 rogue/lvl1 sorcerer? I thought that would actually be pretty decent for a lvl2 char?
2. I'd still prefer to be able to cast spells without having to memorize spells and with unlimited cantrips. Or is that pointless?
i just realized, wizards cantrips are not expended after use either. Didnt know that :D
I will point out that accomplished sneak attacker isn't doing anything for you at 1st and 2nd level.1. Would it not allow me to cast tons of ray of frost with 2D6+1D3 cold damge at lvl1 rogue/lvl1 sorcerer? I thought that would actually be pretty decent for a lvl2 char?
2. I'd still prefer to be able to cast spells without having to memorize spells and with unlimited cantrips. Or is that pointless?
no, it won't Accomplished sneak attacker can not raise your bonus to sneak attack above your character level/2 rounded up. This means that the earliest it can help you is 3rd level and even then only if your sneak attack hasn't naturally increased by 1.
so at rogue(1)/sorc(1) your sneak attack will still only add 1d6.
2. I'd still prefer to be able to cast spells without having to memorize spells and with unlimited cantrips. Or is that pointless?
I wouldn't say it's pointless, it's just that you will be less versatile and you're delaying things by a level. To be fair, it is less paperwork since you're not having to pick spells every day and as a new player that's probably not a bad thing.
Sorcerer isn't a bad choice, it's just a little less optimal. I know players who have played sorcerers and had a blast doing so, it's just not my cup of tea. <shrug>
It usually doesn’t at range; ranged sneak attacking requires a lot of dedicated features.
I am fairly certain that this is not true. The only prerequite for a sneak attack is:
- there is an attack roll involved (ranged touch attack, touch attack work fine)
- the attack has to deal damage
- the target is less than 30 feet away
- the target is denied it's DEX bonus
So many spells should work just fine. But i think your point on the number of attacks per round is actually pretty good. Hm. Maybe i should consider taking something entirely different.
no, it won't Accomplished sneak attacker can not raise your bonus to sneak attack above your character level/2 rounded up.
Damn, you are right. I really should have read the whole description.
It usually doesn’t at range; ranged sneak attacking requires a lot of dedicated features.I am fairly certain that this is not true. The only prerequite for a sneak attack is:
- there is an attack roll involved (ranged touch attack, touch attack work fine)
- the attack has to deal damage
- the target is less than 30 feet away
- the target is denied it's DEX bonusSo many spells should work just fine. But i think your point on the number of attacks per round is actually pretty good. Hm. Maybe i should consider taking something entirely different.
no, it won't Accomplished sneak attacker can not raise your bonus to sneak attack above your character level/2 rounded up.Damn, you are right. I really should have read the whole description.
Greater invisibility + Sniper Goggles would allow you to full attack at range and get sneak attack on all of your attacks. There are other spells that would also work, just this is just the obvious combo. Particularly since arcane trickster gives you greater invs as a class ability.
You can take minor magic talent for an at will cantrip. Pick up acid splash (no SR) then go to town. No wands needed.
You can take minor magic talent for an at will cantrip. Pick up acid splash (no SR) then go to town. No wands needed.
sadly, minor magic talent only lets you cast the cantrip 3 times per day. otherwise I would be looking at this for a lot of characters.
look at the uncahined rogue talents. it changed to be all day long cantrip and the major one is more times perday then the normal rogue.
unchained rogue is a stirght up upgrade in most things then the normal rogue.it can also use any archtype normal rogue has.
only reason now to stay normal rogue is if gm doesn't allow or you want an old talent that didn't make the cut to unchained (like bombs)
This ^
If you want a character that can consistently Sneak Attack with ranged spells, then a sylph with Cloud Gazer and obscuring mist will work much earlier than greater invisibility and in more situations than Stealth.
The metamagic feats Reach Spell and Intensified Spell are also useful for a ranged touch blaster character: Reach Intensified shocking grasp is comparable in damage to fireball, but can also benefit from Sneak Attack.