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In a long-term PbP campaign where our group is in Recruitment for a new PC -- a game that does not allow "Dirty Tactics Toolbox" without approval -- I'm trying to decide whether I should allow the Asmodean Advocate PrC. ....Oh yeah, it's an evil-PCs campaign in Cheliax.
The Asmodean Advocate Archetype essentially trades away One of the Cleric Domains for a Familiar (that becomes an Improved Familiar at the higher Level), and also allows Profession: Barrister checks to be made for all Diplomacy and Bluff checks.
My gut tells me that Trading a Domain for a Familiar and, er, I guess getting one extra Skill -- all Bluff OR Diplomacy rolls -- with Profession: Barrister, is reasonably balanced, but probably not both.
This campaign in particular is a HEAVY Skills game, especially Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, Knowledge -- all kinds of Roleplay stuff, very much like a Game of Thrones style Sandbox might be.
What are y'alls' opinions and experiences with Asmodean Advocate?
Being able to change bluff and diplomacy to wisdom-based and getting a two-for-one deal on them is very nice, but it's not going to break anything. Don't underestimate the loss of domains; it's mitigated in this case by the fact that Trickery is a superb domain, but it does mean you're stuck with suboptimal domain spells at some levels and don't have a second domain to complement the choices.
DM Ray- I think you are perfectly correct that Asmodean Advocate gets more than it trades away.
However, as Dasrak says, it is not going to break anything. And nobody has ever nominated Pathfinder clerics as an over powered class.
My philosophy as a GM is to let players play what they want unless there is a strong reason not to. So I would let a player play one as written.
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And nobody has ever nominated Pathfinder clerics as an over powered class.
Wat? 0_o
Cleric is a tier 1 class for sure. People just don't like playing the team band-aid.
Having said that, no this isn't going to break anything.
Losing a domain for a familiar is an upgrade if the player knows how to get the most out of it, although it does mean you can murder on of the cleric's class-features.
The bonuses to skills are nice (very nice), but the reason they're so nice is because clerics are generally terrible at skills. They're surprisingly MAD for a 9th level caster, and INT is really their best dump-stat.
Out of curiosity, what are the other players going to be playing?
Also, note that you can't dump Int now, because Profession builds off it.
Profession is wisdom-based. It's craft that's intelligence-based.
Also I'd concur that the Cleric is one of the most powerful classes in the game. It just doesn't get much flak for it because the cleric spell list provides a large number of essential services for other party members.
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I agree with the others. It's nice, probably a little upgrade over a core cleric, but it isn't huge.
Two things to think about before you give approval:
1) Are you and the other players OK with the cleric becoming the social front for the entire party? He will probably be the best - or close to the best - character at bluff, diplomacy, sense motive, and perception. Is it going to affect the other players' spotlight time?
2) Think about what potential actions an Imp familiar can take and possibly consider limiting the Improved Familiar a bit. Many players and GMs complain about the "backpack of wands" phenomenon where the familiar is altering the action economy with buffs or 1-round debuffs. An Imp can talk (activate wands) and can be invisible.
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. . . but it does mean you're stuck with suboptimal domain spells at some levels and don't have a second domain to complement the choices.
Don't forget you can always memorize a lower level spell in a higher level slot, including domain slots. So you can memorize confusion in both the 4th and 5th level domain slots, for example.
2) Think about what potential actions an Imp familiar can take and possibly consider limiting the Improved Familiar a bit. Many players and GMs complain about the "backpack of wands" phenomenon where the familiar is altering the action economy with buffs or 1-round debuffs. An Imp can talk (activate wands) and can be invisible.
This is a valid point. Normally.
However, one of the other players in the campaign in question, specifically me, is playing a master summoner. The effect of the Imp familiar on the action economy is minor by comparison.