I recently read the kingdom building rules in Ultimate Campaign. Not just those rules, but also the settlement rules in Game Mastery Guide and the kingdom rules in Kingmaker AP 2. I have some questions.
1. A step is missing. Under the edicts phase, its missing step 3. Is this important?
2. Its seems that stability is critical. Unrest causes problems with economy, loyalty, and stability. You can fight unrest with stability. Loyalty seems to be the dump stat. It doesn't seem to come up every turn. Is my assessment correct?
3. Are the stat changes caused by holiday, promotion, and taxation edicts temporary or permanent? For instance, if you pick standard promotion, does your stability increase by 2 every turn, or is it a bonus you get only as long you keep the current settings?
4. Settlement size and base value. Does the base value start at 0? I'm under the impression that it starts at 0, then you raise this value by building different buildings? And this value can't be raised beyond what your population will allow as depicted in table 4-5?
I might have more questions later. I'm still trying to figure this all out.
2) Loyalty gets really important if you enter a war (mass combat, also in Ultimate Campaign). Especially if you loose.
I'm not super well versed in this, but I'll see if I can add something.
OmniMage wrote: 1. A step is missing. Under the edicts phase, its missing step 3. Is this important? I don't have the books. Is THIS PAGE what you're referring to? I was going to suggest that it looks like it just wasn't copied from book to website properly, but THIS PAGE has the same problem. I don't remember noticing this in our kingmaker game, but one of the players has the actual book (so it might have been diferent) and it was about 2 years ago when we first read it.
OmniMage wrote: 2. Its seems that stability is critical. Unrest causes problems with economy, loyalty, and stability. You can fight unrest with stability. Loyalty seems to be the dump stat. It doesn't seem to come up every turn. Is my assessment correct? Our game we had a religious theme for our party. We all had high WIS/CHA, and we prioritised religious buildings. This meant our stability checks literally couldn't fail (we said we do on a Nat 1, but I don't think that's the actual rule). From what I can tell this was somewhat game-breaking. So yes Stability is good.
OmniMage wrote: 3. Are the stat changes caused by holiday, promotion, and taxation edicts temporary or permanent? For instance, if you pick standard promotion, does your stability increase by 2 every turn, or is it a bonus you get only as long you keep the current settings? I'm not quite sure I understand the question. Stability caused by an edict will be a permanent bonus every turn, but if you change your edict you no longer get the bonus.
OmniMage wrote: 4. Settlement size and base value. Does the base value start at 0? I'm under the impression that it starts at 0, then you raise this value by building different buildings? And this value can't be raised beyond what your population will allow as depicted in table 4-5? I'm not sure what you're referring to here. Magic items? If so I believe you're correct.
Sorry I wasn't more helpful, but hopefully I at least helped a bit =P
RoseCrown wrote: 2) Loyalty gets really important if you enter a war (mass combat, also in Ultimate Campaign). Especially if you loose. OK, thanks. I'm not that quite far in my simulations.
MrCharisma wrote: OmniMage wrote: 1. A step is missing. Under the edicts phase, its missing step 3. Is this important? I don't have the books. Is THIS PAGE what you're referring to? I was going to suggest that it looks like it just wasn't copied from book to website properly, but THIS PAGE has the same problem. I don't remember noticing this in our kingmaker game, but one of the players has the actual book (so it might have been diferent) and it was about 2 years ago when we first read it.
Yes. The first URL looks the same as to what I'm looking at. I'm using Ultimate Campaign as my primary guide.
I can't see what the second URL is pointing at.
Maybe the missing step is a typo. The game doesn't seem to break without it.
MrCharisma wrote: OmniMage wrote: 2. Its seems that stability is critical. Unrest causes problems with economy, loyalty, and stability. You can fight unrest with stability. Loyalty seems to be the dump stat. It doesn't seem to come up every turn. Is my assessment correct? Our game we had a religious theme for our party. We all had high WIS/CHA, and we prioritised religious buildings. This meant our stability checks literally couldn't fail (we said we do on a Nat 1, but I don't think that's the actual rule). From what I can tell this was somewhat game-breaking. So yes Stability is good.
One of my simulations quickly broke before it even got to turn 10. It got overwhelmed by unrest.
Ultimate Campaign makes it clear that a natural 1 is failure, while a natural 20 is success. No taking 10 or 20.
MrCharisma wrote: OmniMage wrote: 3. Are the stat changes caused by holiday, promotion, and taxation edicts temporary or permanent? For instance, if you pick standard promotion, does your stability increase by 2 every turn, or is it a bonus you get only as long you keep the current settings? I'm not quite sure I understand the question. Stability caused by an edict will be a permanent bonus every turn, but if you change your edict you no longer get the bonus.
Well, there are inconsistencies. You can lose loyalty by using your royal enforcer to reduce unrest. This seems to be a permanent loss to loyalty. Its not tied to any building or tile improvement. It didn't say how to remove the loss.
I wasn't sure if the edicts were the same way. It makes sense that the bonuses last as long the edicts do.
MrCharisma wrote: OmniMage wrote: 4. Settlement size and base value. Does the base value start at 0? I'm under the impression that it starts at 0, then you raise this value by building different buildings? And this value can't be raised beyond what your population will allow as depicted in table 4-5? I'm not sure what you're referring to here. Magic items? If so I believe you're correct.
Yes magic items and buying them. Table 4-5 says that a small town (population 201-2000) has a base value of 1000 gp. The rules say that a settlement starts at 0, is raised by buildings, and this value can't grow higher than what the table indicates.
Reading it again, I feel more sure that this is the case. The table probably should have said cap instead of base value.
OmniMage wrote: I can't see what the second URL is pointing at. Woops, I must have copied the wrong url =P
The first was archivesofnethys.com, the second was the d20pfsrd. They both had that step missing so maybe it was a typo in the actual book.
OmniMage wrote: Ultimate Campaign makes it clear that a natural 1 is failure, while a natural 20 is success. No taking 10 or 20. Well there you go. That's how we've been playing it, but it's been a while since i read the rules. I guess I forgot which parts we home-brewed and which were from the book.
OmniMage wrote: Well, there are inconsistencies. You can lose loyalty by using your royal enforcer to reduce unrest. This seems to be a permanent loss to loyalty. Its not tied to any building or tile improvement. It didn't say how to remove the loss. Oh yeah i follow you now. I think stability/etc come and go as you change edicts, but if you get a point of unrest (or possibly negative loyalty) it's permanently there. There are ways to get rid of the penalty, but it's not something that goes away when you change edicts. We more or less decided never to use the enforcer because the risk of permanent loss seemed to great. We haven't gone to war yet though, so maybe it's worth it when the time comes.
For the magic item stuff I think you've got it down =)
OmniMage wrote: Ultimate Campaign makes it clear that a natural 1 is failure, while a natural 20 is success. No taking 10 or 20. You can't take 10 or 20, because it's not a skill check or ability check. It doesn't really matter that there is auto success or failure.
More questions. Thanks for the replies thus far.
5. Do the leaders get paid? There is no mention of it. It seems that the only way for leaders to get money from the kingdom is to take BP from the treasury and increase unrest in the process.
6. Can settlements have terrain improvements? Stockyards imply that this can happen. It says it affects farms in this hex and adjacent hexes. On the other hand, things like forts and watchtowers become city buildings.
5. No. But you're an adventurer (probably) so you're already richer than most kings.
6. I can't remember, sorry =P
MrCharisma wrote: 5. No. But you're an adventurer (probably) so you're already richer than most kings. Not really. High-level adventurers have more personal power than most kings, but they aren't richer.
A level 20 adventurer has a total wealth (not income) of 880.000.
With that money, you can pay a middle-sized bureaucracy or 8.000 soldiers for a year (and I am not calculating the food, lodging, weapon cost and so on).
It depends on the kind of government of the kingdom, but in totalitarian kingdoms, the king has direct access to the treasury.
3) Apply the effects of every edict each turn.
5) No, leaders do not get paid without withdrawing BP from the kingdom. If you want an economic benefit from running the Kingdom you could use Downtime to buy buildings, and use kingdom settlement construction to speed up the rate at which you get buildings.
Like if you want to build yourself a mansion you could build a Nobel district and then there is suddenly as building that has everything you want in it. You still have to pay resources/gold for the building, but you save the entire construction time.
6) Yes, you can place settlements in any hex with improvements or without. If you couldn't there wouldn't be roads or bridges to your settlement...
Also there is no limit to the number of districts allowed in a settlement/hex. Each hex is 8 miles across. Technically you shouldn't be able to put more than 64 districts in a hex, but this is an abstract system so lets just ignore inconvenient things that the rules don't cover.
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