Int Build Monday: Kirin Strike / Focused Shot; Kirin Strike / Elven Battle Focus / Learned Duelist

[EstabanDeLaFerroVenté]

So I've alway wanted to make a int based martial build. There's a lot of niche int to (x) stuff in non-caster classes and I'd like to make a build focusing around Int, that is minimally caster intensive. Unfortunately my knowledge of pathfinder is not encyclopedic, and I would love people's build ideas for Int to damage/hit/etc.

Rules)

1. 10th level; 45k gold for items etc.
2. no more than 2 of those ten levels can be used for casting class
3. No 3pp; does not need to be PFS legal though
4. show me what you got! (lol)

[avr]

A lot of that Int to damage stuff requires too much setup (kirin strike requires a swift action to enter the style, another to identify the monster using the style, and only then can you spend a swift action to add Int to damage), or standard actions only (focused shot). Elven battle focus is maybe doable given the 10th level setup thought it'd be more painful getting there from 1st. Let's try it. I'll assume 20-point buy.

Elf daring champion cavalier (Order of the Eastern Star) 8 / urban bloodrager 1 / fighter 1

build:

Str 11, Dex 15+2 race+1 level+2 enhancement=20, Con 14-2 race=12, Int 15+2 race+1 level+2 enhancement=20, Wis 12, Cha 8

Rapier +16/+8, 1d6+14, 15-20/x2
- with challenge (4/day) +10 damage, +3 dodge to AC, +3 insight to saves vs. challenged enemy, -2 AC vs. non-challenged enemies
AC 29 (armor +5, shield +2, dex +5, dodge +2, natural armor +1, deflection +1, combat expertise dodge +3)
DR 2/- when using combat expertise
F +14, R +10, W +8 (+2 morale to all saves when using combat expertise)

Traits
Fencer
Defensive strategist

Feats
1: elven battle training
Cavalier 1 (tactician): precise strike
Daring champion cavalier 1: weapon finesse
Order of the Eastern Star 1: psychic sensitivity
3: elven battle style
5: elven battle focus
Cavalier 6: combat expertise
7: improved trip
9: greater trip
Fighter 1: elven battle torrent

Gear
+1 keen rapier
+1 buckler
Headband of vast intelligence +2
Belt of incredible dexterity +2
Vambraces of the tactician
+1 mithral chain shirt
Cloak of resistance +3
Amulet of natural armor +1
Ring of protection +1
Wand of blade lash
Wand of infernal healing
Handy haversack, 915 to spend

tactics & tricks:

Basically you hit things, but you can dabble in combat maneuvers directly or via blade lash. With just one point of panache you don't generally spend it, you hang on to it for the +8 damage of the precise strike deed. You also have the precise strike feat which you can give out to all your friends within 60'. You can ignore the penalty from combat expertise on the first attack each round.

Elven battle focus gives you the Int to damage, elven battle torrent gives you an AoO when you're attacked and missed, 1/round only sadly.

I don't really like this, I may try again later.

[DthKnell]

I don't have the full build with me but I've been working on a ratfolk martial build with a white haired witch dip to get intelligence based grapple. I'm not yet set on the full builf yet, but grappling a foe without being grappled yourself is quite fun.

I'm also considering a single lvl dip into wizard to add Intelligence to CMB thanks to the Knowledge is Power Discovery. 1 lvl for a +2 on Will saves, access to wizard spells as wands, a couple of first lvl spells like Enlarge Person or True Strike and a Wizard School Power can all help boost a maneuver focused chracter.

[Temperans]

Build:

Spear Fighter 1/Learned Duelist 5/Duelist 4
Stats (15 point buy): 10 16+1+2 12 15+1+2 8 12

Traits: Bruising Intellect, Threatening Defender

Weapon: Dueling Dagger (12 gp), +1 Dueling/Answering Rapier (16,320 gp).

Rapier stats: Atk 16 (15 w/ Combat Expertise), Dmg 1d6+ 5+ 9 (14)

Defenses: +1 Mithral Chain shirt (2.1k gp), Cloak of Daring Deeds (9k gp), Knight-Inheritors' Ring (3k gp).

AC: 10+ 4 (Dex)+ 5 (Armor)+ 1 (Deflection)+ 2 (Dodge)+ 4 (Int)= 26
+ 3 (Combat Expertise)= 29.
Saves: F: 6 (9), R: 10 (13), W: 4 (7).

Misc: Swordmaster's Flair (your choice) (2.5k gp), Handy Haversack (2k gp), Belt of Dex (4k gp) Headband of Int (4k gp), Plume of Panache w/ hat (1,010 gp), Greater Talisman of Beneficial Winds (500 gp).
Total spent: ~44,442 gp.
Amount Left: ~668 gp.

1: Elven Battle Style
F: Dodge
F: Elven Battle Training
2: S: Weapon Finesse
S: Weapon Focus (Rapier)
3: Mobility
5: Elven Battle Focus
S: Free
6: S: Improved Critical (Rapier)
7: Combat Expertise
9: Free
10: Combat Reflexes

The basic premise of the build is to take advantage of precise strike to deal lots of damage and using panache to power your defenses. The Dueling Rapier boosts int while choosing to ho with Answering gives you +4 to opportune parry.

Another option is to go Ustavalic Fighter 9/Warrior Poet 1. To then move, feint, and the Vital Strike with Str and Int to dmg vs a feinted target. However it lacks, the titled feats/classes.

One last option is to use the Daring Champion build given, but instead of using a rapier, use an elven branch spear; also replacing Fighter for Spear Fighter and Urban Bloodrager for Kensai (Weapon Focus and Arcane Point instead of Bloodrage). This gives 1.5 Int to dmg (if I understood correctly), 3 extra feats, +1 Enchantment for 1+int minutes, and magus spells/cantrips.

[avr]

If you dip in magus you lose the +10 BAB which elven battle torrent requires - sorry Temperans while your own two builds work that suggested modification to mine does not. The branched spear is worth a thought, though losing any AC (the buckler) makes elven battle torrent harder to pull off.

[Temperans]

Well yes you lose 1 bab and can't get battle torrent, but in exchange you get the access to the magus spell list from the get go which helps with the trip part. And some, although not much, range abilities; or some other thing like Blend.

Biggest problem is the 2-handed use of branched spear, which I admit I forgot about it: I spent so much time trying to writing the first suggestion, that it slipped my mind.

[awbattles]

I have an int build ready to go if my current druggie-Druid dies, and I’m pretty excited for it. Good chance it won’t meet your goals though, because it requires starting at a higher level. Or having a hell of a time at low levels anyway.

Elven Empiricist Investigator, wielding a rapier.
After racials, 15 point buy, middle age modifiers:
6 Str, 16 Dex, 12 Con, 20 Int, 8 Wis, 8 Cha
If the point buy is higher, you can put the extra 5 points into Wis to shore up the will save. All ability score increases from level to Int, and prioritize Int with items.

Traits:
Threatening Defender (reduce combat expertise penalty by 1)
Bruising Intellect (int to intimidate)

1 Investigator; Weapon Finesse
2 Investigator
3 Investigator; Combat Expertise; Quick Study Talent
4 Investigator
5 Investigator; Dodge
6 Investigator
7 Investigator; Skill Focus (any knowledge); Sickening Offensive talent
8 Student of War;
9 Student of War; Elven Battle Training; Elven Battle Style; Combat Inspiration talent
10 Investigator
11 Investigator; Elven Battle Torrent; Underworld Inspiration talent

I make...no guarantees about this build. At level 1, you have 17ac with armor, and a passable +3 to hit. By level 3 you take combat expertise and use it, because at 4 your to-hit will be solidly bolstered by Studied Combat. At 7 you stop using combat expertise and instead let the sickened condition boost your effective ac (against your studied target; for groups of mooks, still consider combat expertise). At 9, you’re finally golden. Int to AC means a solid +3 to ac over what you have had, and you’re getting extra AoO. At 11 you have the coveted Int to damage. Lots of inspiration. Alchemy is almost a side-effect of the class; hand out infusions to your allies, and keep one or two yourself for pre-bufffing. Eventually consider dazzling display and disheartening display (probably going more Student of War levels for the bonus feats) for debugging groups of enemies with demoralize/higher fear effects.

I don’t know if any of that interests you, but it’s what I have theorycrafted for my next build. I look forward to having an older, learned elf who says, “hold on, I read in a book once that most swordsmen strike from the right, being right-handed” to explain his ac. “If I recall correctly, ogres have a weak spot...there”. Maybe I’m nuts. I like the idea though.

[EstabanDeLaFerroVenté]

Looks like people are leaning toward melee builds. I was think of ranged alchemist using a bow, but I'm liking the ideas here. Temperans, I'm not familiar with Ustavalic Fighter 9/Warrior Poet 1, are there other ways to get int to damage on a feint? Personally I feel Elven Battle Torrent is a waste if you can only get one free attack/round and it takes a AoO, but my group is also fighting most mages (campaign is centered around taking out a magic based terrorist group) and thus rarely get to be in range for an AoO, also casting defensively, usual mage shenanigans.

for me so far this is what I did for my version of the build:

Human; Comprehensive Education
Alchemist (vanila) 10
(25 point buy for those wondering)
[oh also I like to heal when I can, but I usually just grab a few wands]

stats
7
16
12
24 (18 +1 level,+1 level,+4 band)
10
10

Feats
H Point Blank Shot
A Brew Potion
A Throw Anything
1Precise Shot
3 Focused Shot
5 Bullseye Shot
7 Kirin Style
9 Kirin Strike

Traits
Heirloom Weapon: Long Bow
[Any]

Discoveries
2 Spontaneous Healing
4 Explosive Missile
6 Healing Touch
8 Delayed Bomb
10 Healing Bomb

Heres the idea: set up Kirin style and any potion buffs on first round, then add delayed bomb to an arrow and move into a good firing position, then use bullseye + focused shot with the delayed bomb + explosive missile combo arrow and then swift action for the damage off of Kirin Style. looking at 1d8+7 (focused shot)+14 (Kirin Style)+[7+5d6] (bombs) for a few times a day when I need to. Thats only with a +4 headband too, so add in your choice of magical items after that

[Temperans]

Yeah I definetly spent too much time working on the build. Learned Duelist was meant to be Inspired Blade (Swashbuckler). And, Ustavalic Fighter was meant to be Ustalavic Duelist (Fighter). I really don't know how I messed that up.

* The way that combo works is to move triggering the feint from Warrior Poet (Samurai) if it works then the Vital Strike ability from Ustalavic Duelist will hit and deal Str+Int.

* You can get a +4 bonus to feint from high Int (19 Int) with Fox Style feats, if you use Cha to feint.

* Clever Wordplay (trait) lets you replace Int for 1 Cha skill.

* Kitsune Rogue archetypes lets you use Int for some Cha skills.

* 1 lv of Wizard for Hand of the Apprentice (school or achetype), gives int to atk and dmg for ranged attacks 3+int times per day.

* * In other news untyped ability bonuses of the same Attribute don't stack as per an faq. For example: Int to Dmg 2* does not work. But, Int to dmg and Int as an Insight bonus to dmg do stack.

[Ferious Thune]

awbattles wrote:

9 Student of War; Elven Battle Training; Elven Battle Style; Combat Inspiration talent

You don't get an Investigator Talent when you take a level of Student of War. Unless I'm missing something, it doesn't advance any abilities of your other classes. You get a bonus combat feat, which explains how you take Elven Battle Training and Elven Battle Style at that level, but you wouldn't also be able to take Combat Inspiration.

Other than that, it looks like an interesting build.

[awbattles]

Ferious Thune wrote:

awbattles wrote:

9 Student of War; Elven Battle Training; Elven Battle Style; Combat Inspiration talent

You don't get an Investigator Talent when you take a level of Student of War. Unless I'm missing something, it doesn't advance any abilities of your other classes. You get a bonus combat feat, which explains how you take Elven Battle Training and Elven Battle Style at that level, but you wouldn't also be able to take Combat Inspiration.

Other than that, it looks like an interesting build.

Very true. I hadn't proofed my upper levels as thoroughly yet, and I hadn't even 100% decided on how to continue AFTER level 9, whether to just go back to pure Investigator levels (probably the "wisest" choice) or to continue on with Student of War levels for a slightly more unusual build. I would lean toward the Investigator for levels 10 and 11, just to qualify for Combat Inspiration, maybe 12 for an extra inspiration/studied damage and attack/+1d6 studied strike, and then go Student of War from there; the full BAB and Know Your Enemy bonuses will be fair tradeoffs for the martial side of investigator, you already have a lot of inspiration, so losing out on a couple more shouldn't be devastating, so you essentially trade progression in Alchemy for the situational (but kind of awesome) Anticipate, and a couple combat feats. Again, staying Investigator is doubtless stronger, but you'll still be handing out a dozen extracts a day.

To correct the previous post:
1. At level 11 it would actually be Elven Battle Focus, not Torrent.
2. At level 5 there should be an investigator talent (Infusion)
3. The talent at 9 should instead be moved to 11.