I need help on this one. It's hard to find a proper comprehensive list of finessable weapons. Weapon Finesse has all light, the rapier, spiked chain, whip, and elven curve blade. However when you get into other weapons and feats, there's the Aldori dueling sword and the glaive through Bladed Brush...
I wanna know every Finesse weapon option so I can pick the one I like most for the character (regardless of whether a Magus can actually use it, that's step 2 I need some help with).
Currently I'm attracted to the Aldori dueling sword for its thematics and a potential 1 level Aldori Swordlord dip for Dex to damage, but many the Aldori feats insist on: "To gain these benefits, you must be wielding only an Aldori dueling sword (not using a shield, an off-hand weapon, armor spikes, unarmed strikes, or natural weapons)." and Spell Combat states "This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast. To use this ability, the magus must have one hand free (even if the spell being cast does not have somatic components), while wielding a light or one-handed melee weapon in the other hand." so I don't think a Magus can actually use many of the AC boosting feats.
I think I wanna use the Sigilus archtype since I won't need medium or heavy armor as a Dex build, but the Eldritch Scion to make Cha my casting ability and going full Intimidate build for the Swordlord is also inticing. I think I prefer Sigilus though because from my experience playing a Wizard, having a spellbook and being able to just buy new spells instead of waiting to learn them is such a powerful ability.
If I'm going Aldori or another of the more exotic Finesse options, I also think I need to be Human and start with the bonus feat. Though I can't start with Exotic Weapon Proficiency (BAB +1 prerequisite) the Aldori counts as a longsword when you don't have EWP. Though it wouldn't be finessable yet so I'd need a temporary option anyway.
All of this because after showing off two super-strong Improvised Weapon builds, a friend of mine has said (probably in jest) that I'll be building his Magus. I wanna build it my way first so I understand what the class needs from feats and class options before I suggest anything for the Magus he would want to play. I'm way more used to building martial characters (Gunslinger, Vigilante, Rogue, Brawler) and just flying by the seat of my pants with casters (Wizard, Oracle), so a hybrid confuses me. I'm not 100% sure what I should be investing in long term, and short term I'm getting hung up on weapon choice.
Few ways for an exotic weapon:
Kensai Magus Archetype gains proficiency in a single exotic weapon.
The Bladebound Archetype's Black Blade can be any weapon as long as it is one-handed and slashing.
You can also wait until you can afford a Cracked Opalescent White Pyramid Ioun Stone to be able to wield an exotic weapon. Slot it into a Wayfinder and you've saved yourself two feats (Exotic Weapon Proficiency and Weapon Focus).
Also bladed brush for a glaive
You can even finesse polearms with spear dancing style/spear dancing spiral
I feel like I'm goona have to manually read all the 1st party material to find all the Finesse weapons. Some feats alter, and some weapon descriptions since CRB 6th printing have it in their descriptions.
No one seems to have a definitive list of every Finesse option.
Both the Aldori swordlord and spell combat require you to have a free hand. Anytime you have satisfied that requirement for one, you will have satisfied it for the other.
"This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast." is an explanation to help understand how it works. It in no way turns a spell being cast into a weapon that occupies the hand (if it did, using spell combat would prevent using spell combat.)
Also the Elven Thornblades (and smaller Leafblades). You'll get the exotic proficiency for free if you're an elf as a bonus.
Both the Aldori swordlord and spell combat require you to have a free hand. Anytime you have satisfied that requirement for one, you will have satisfied it for the other.
"This functions much like two-weapon fighting, but the off-hand weapon is a spell that is being cast." is an explanation to help understand how it works. It in no way turns a spell being cast into a weapon that occupies the hand (if it did, using spell combat would prevent using spell combat.)
Nice. I think I may go for the Aldori then, because I still like the idea.
Level 1 Finesse, Level 3 EWP Aldori, Level 5 Weapon Focus Aldori + Dazzling Display to qualify for the 1 level dip into Aldori Swordlord for +1 BAB, Dex to damage, and Quick Draw free. Then back to Magus till end.
Elaborating on the Kensai Magus archetype: It also gives you Weapon Focus as a bonus feat. If you are human, you could then take the appropriate "Grace" feat for your weapon and add you Dex bonus to damage from 1st level.
I feel like I'm goona have to manually read all the 1st party material to find all the Finesse weapons. Some feats alter, and some weapon descriptions since CRB 6th printing have it in their descriptions.
No one seems to have a definitive list of every Finesse option.
With the right feats, abilities and gear, anything can be finessed.
The only questions are:
1. How much are you willing to invest
2. Do you wan't to use spell combat in the same round.
Elaborating on the Kensai Magus archetype: It also gives you Weapon Focus as a bonus feat. If you are human, you could then take the appropriate "Grace" feat for your weapon and add you Dex bonus to damage from 1st level.
I did like the Kensai, but I think I wanna play this character as more caster, and Kensai's Diminished Spellcasting would hinder that hard. Sigilus reduces the penalties for spell combat with whichever school you put on your blade (at the cost of being unable to cast its opposed schools).
I think I'm going to actually go with Sylph and a thematic selection of lightning-based evocation magic. The goal being like Shocking Grasp at only a -1 attack roll (Finessed so still a healthy bonus) with a full Aldori Dex-damage attack on top of it. The downside will be with the wrath sigil for evocation boost, is abjuration and conjuration would be prohibited during spell combat. Though the Aldori feat lines will make a bit of difference there if I go further down them.
Elaborating on the Kensai Magus archetype: It also gives you Weapon Focus as a bonus feat. If you are human, you could then take the appropriate "Grace" feat for your weapon and add you Dex bonus to damage from 1st level.
Slashing Grace, like most options aside from Dervish Dance, does not allow DEX-to-damage on rounds where you use spell combat.
Other options that allow both are Aldori Sworldlord and putting the Agile property on an appropriate weapon.
Alright, moving on... Not sure about my stat array though.
Str 8
Dex 18
Con 10
Int 18
Wis 10
Cha 10
20 point buy of course. I feel like the Cha is a little low for Dazzling Display and Intimidate. Plus Str penalty will hit hard levels 1-5 before taking the level if Aldori Swordlord.
So it's going to be a slow drag those early levels. Will need a substitute Finesse weapon for levels 1 and 2. Levels 3-5 the dueling sword will be 1d8-1. Having played a Vigilante with Str penalty before, that plays big through the early levels.
Pretty much going to have to fully rely on spells for those early levels.
You really don't want a CON of 10.
That 8 STR is going to make wearing armor very rough. Unless you plan on going kensai for INT-to-AC.
Consider Dervish Dance; it comes online at 3rd level, 2nd if you are allowed to use the retraining rules. It also does not require giving up your caster levels.
Reduced Int:
Str 8
Dex 18
Con 12
Int 16
Wis 10
Cha 12
With Sylph taking the hit to Con, it's hard to get it up to a respectable value. Int needs at least 16 (10 + spell level) so I don't think I can go lower.
I remember taking Elemental Spell on my Wizard in Iron Gods. I liked it a lot. Magical Lineage + Intensified though I do like the sound of as well to keep Shocking Grasp (one of the few electricity spells with an attack roll) relevant into higher levels.
I do unfortunately really like the Aldori though. I kind of grew attached to it in the character concept. Agile only works if my GM will allow an enchantment from an AP, though it would apply to the Aldori. I'm more interested in the Aldori style feats that reduced attack penalties on effects that boost AC. Particularly, Aldori Dueling Mastery. (If AC is good enough to avoid hits, then it's less likely I'll need to cast defensively and loose spells to Concentration checks.)
I have never been one to need to be perfectly optimized. Just optimized enough for the character concept to function. You may be right though, that investing so heavily into the Aldori route early will take away from the character's purpose as a caster.
To get Dex to damage, a 1 level dip in inspired blade swashbuckler and the Fencing Grace feat can be taken earlier than the Aldori swordlord; if you start with swashbuckler (and immediately multiclass into magus as soon as you gain a level), you can even start with Dex to damage as a 1st level character. It also requires less feat investment.
An additional benefit of the inspired blade archetype is that it applies both Int and Char modifiers when determining panache.
Further reduced Int.
Str 10
Dex 18
Con 12
Int 15
Wis 10
Cha 12
Alternatively, drop the Cha because there's really not much need for it without going the Dazzling Display route early.
Str 10
Dex 18
Con 12
Int 16
Wis 10
Cha 10
This allows pouring level up boosts directly into Dex for attack bonus on spells and the full attacks.
This is hard going true split between martial ability (something I'm more used to investing in long term feat chains) and spellcasting (where I'm used to taking a hodgepodge).
Additionally, Swashbuckler would get Dex-damage easier, but it wouldn't apply to Spell Combat, which is the point. Fencing Grace (and the various other graces) "You do not gain this benefit while fighting with two weapons or using flurry of blows, or anytime another hand is otherwise occupied." Aldori Swordlord does not have this detriment which makes a larger difference.
With neutral Str however, getting Swordlord early isn't critical. So could pick up Exotic Proficiency at 3, and then focus on spell feats for a little. Grab Intensify by 5 for Shocking Grasp to stay improving.
Whilst Spell Specialization is good, Spell Focus doesn't really aid the character build. The aim is for mostly attack roll and self-buff spells for use with Spell Combat. True Strike, Shocking Grasp, etc.
This is all really good information though. As I think I said, this is me wanting to build the Magus my way, so that I better understand the class for if our party's Magus actually asks me for build assistance.
There isn't a way to prevent AoO from spellcasting is there? Other than defensive casting and a Concentration check?