Quote: Certain attack forms, typically fire and acid, cause a creature’s regeneration to stop functioning on the round following the attack. During this round, the creature does not heal any damage and can die normally. The creature’s descriptive text describes the types of damage that cause the regeneration to cease functioning. Quote: Chaotic: Spells that draw upon the power of true chaos or conjure creatures from chaos-aligned planes or with the chaotic subtype should have the chaos descriptor. Will Tumultuous Fireball kill a Marut? Something like Chaos Hammer obviously should, the damage is explicitly from chaos, but I've got no idea on Tumultuous Spell stuff. It obviously should but I can't tell if it's RAW.
I would say not until errata corrects the text.
Marut
hp 214 (16d10+126); regeneration 10 (chaotic)
Tumultous Spell metamagic
the description lacks direction to add the chaotic descriptor, so No. The description does state it doesn't work on spells with the lawful descriptor.
Huh, I didn't notice Tumultuous Spell, unlike the other three aligned spell counterparts, lacked something to add the descriptor.
How about Blissful Spell against a Kyton's regeneration?
making the spell a kind that needed to bypass the regeniration doesn't automaticly change the damage type that the spell deal. id say only change that also specificly call out to cahnge the damage type to the needed kind would work (say the metamagic that changes the energy type of a spell to a difrent kind)
deuxhero wrote: Huh, I didn't notice Tumultuous Spell, unlike the other three aligned spell counterparts, lacked something to add the descriptor. *rubs eyeballs* I really hope that's just another editing mistake.
A +1 holy longsword still does slashing, not good, damage...
Quote: A holy weapon is imbued with holy power. This power makes the weapon good-aligned and thus bypasses the corresponding damage reduction. Actually, if anything the way it mentions the weapon being good aligned is a point in blissful's favor.
Does holy smite shut down regeneration (good)? I would think so.
deuxhero wrote: A +1 holy longsword still does slashing, not good, damage...
Quote: A holy weapon is imbued with holy power. This power makes the weapon good-aligned and thus bypasses the corresponding damage reduction. Actually, if anything the way it mentions the weapon being good aligned is a point in blissful's favor.
looks like damage reduction, as written, gets bypassed based on the weapon, not on the damage type.
Lelomenia wrote: deuxhero wrote: A +1 holy longsword still does slashing, not good, damage...
Quote: A holy weapon is imbued with holy power. This power makes the weapon good-aligned and thus bypasses the corresponding damage reduction. Actually, if anything the way it mentions the weapon being good aligned is a point in blissful's favor.
looks like damage reduction, as written, gets bypassed based on the weapon, not on the damage type. that's like saying if you can change your weapon damage type (there are feats for it) then even if you deal blodgening damage with a longsword it would still bypass slashing dr.
i would agree that it is logical to asume that a lawfull spell that deal samage deal lawfull damage type along the printed damage type. but raw unless stated it only deal the type of damage it say it does.
Align Weapon and hopefully that clarifies the chatter on the topic. From a game perspective good-aligned and the Good descriptor serve the same purpose, just different customary usage in text.
It's common knowledge that spells that summon from an elemental plane or with celestial[good]/infernal[evil] templates take on that descriptor. Good/Evil spells tend to be more defined and have different effects.
under the magic section and then descriptors updated in Ultimate Magic;
Chaotic: Spells that draw upon the power of true chaos or conjure creatures from chaos-aligned planes or with the chaotic subtype should have the chaos descriptor.
and
Evil: Spells that draw upon evil powers or conjure creatures from evil-aligned planes or with the evil subtype should have the evil descriptor.
Additional Information on the Evil Descriptor from Horror Adventures;
Casting an evil spell is an evil act, but for most characters simply casting such a spell once isn’t enough to change her alignment; this only occurs if the spell is used for a truly abhorrent act, or if the caster established a pattern of casting evil spells over a long period. A wizard who uses animate dead to create guardians for defenseless people won’t turn evil, but he will if he does it over and over again. The GM decides whether the character’s alignment changes, but typically casting two evil spells is enough to turn a good creature nongood, and three or more evils spells move the caster from nongood to evil. The greater the amount of time between castings, the less likely alignment will change. Some spells require sacrificing a sentient creature, a major evil act that makes the caster evil in almost every circumstance.
Those who are forbidden from casting spells with an opposed alignment might lose their divine abilities if they circumvent that restriction (via Use Magic Device, for example), depending on how strict their deities are.
Though this advice talks about evil spells, it also applies to spells with other alignment descriptors.
so there's some GM discretion there IF they believe that the metamagic pulls from true chaos. The direction that metamagics take the worse option also has to be considered.
My initial post is from a RAW perspective, with RAW it is what it is.
zza ni wrote: Lelomenia wrote: deuxhero wrote: A +1 holy longsword still does slashing, not good, damage...
Quote: A holy weapon is imbued with holy power. This power makes the weapon good-aligned and thus bypasses the corresponding damage reduction. Actually, if anything the way it mentions the weapon being good aligned is a point in blissful's favor.
looks like damage reduction, as written, gets bypassed based on the weapon, not on the damage type. that's like saying if you can change your weapon damage type (there are feats for it) then even if you deal blodgening damage with a longsword it would still bypass slashing dr.
i would agree that it is logical to asume that a lawfull spell that deal samage deal lawfull damage type along the printed damage type. but raw unless stated it only deal the type of damage it say it does. problem is there’s a discontinuity in the rules somewhere.
By rules, damage reduction bypass triggers off Weapon property, not damage property, which is why good outsiders and good weapons bypass damage reduction despite not dealing ‘good’ damage.
Where regeneration shutdown operates off damage type, so fire etc works if applicable, but arguably a ‘good’ spell that deals force damage doesn’t. But...there is no ‘good’ damage in the game (not really). Good types outsiders and holy swords don’t deal good types damage either, so that raw suggests nothing in the game can shut down alignment types regeneration.
I would reinterpret that for alignment regeneration shutdown, you reference the damage source type, not the damage type. Or else that doesn’t work at all. I.e., it’s not RAW, but no one has ever played by RAW.
My reading of Tumultuous Spell makes it sound like the chaos they describe applies more to the randomness and effect. Like being blown about by a tornado. I think the chaos described is more like the unpredictability of confusion or the possible effects of a prismatic spray as to what might occur.
I don't believe it makes the spell (or its damage) chaotic. Despite the restriction on using it with Lawful spells, I see nothing that would prevent a lawful cleric from using it, for instance. I can see how that might have been intended but never added to final release, however.
Lelomenia wrote: zza ni wrote: Lelomenia wrote: deuxhero wrote: A +1 holy longsword still does slashing, not good, damage...
Quote: A holy weapon is imbued with holy power. This power makes the weapon good-aligned and thus bypasses the corresponding damage reduction. Actually, if anything the way it mentions the weapon being good aligned is a point in blissful's favor.
looks like damage reduction, as written, gets bypassed based on the weapon, not on the damage type. that's like saying if you can change your weapon damage type (there are feats for it) then even if you deal blodgening damage with a longsword it would still bypass slashing dr.
i would agree that it is logical to asume that a lawfull spell that deal samage deal lawfull damage type along the printed damage type. but raw unless stated it only deal the type of damage it say it does. problem is there’s a discontinuity in the rules somewhere.
By rules, damage reduction bypass triggers off Weapon property, not damage property, which is why good outsiders and good weapons bypass damage reduction despite not dealing ‘good’ damage.
Where regeneration shutdown operates off damage type, so fire etc works if applicable, but arguably a ‘good’ spell that deals force damage doesn’t. But...there is no ‘good’ damage in the game (not really). Good types outsiders and holy swords don’t deal good types damage either, so that raw suggests nothing in the game can shut down alignment types regeneration.
I would reinterpret that for alignment regeneration shutdown, you reference the damage source type, not the damage type. Or else that doesn’t work at all. I.e., it’s not RAW, but no one has ever played by RAW. It's important to note that Pathfinder is not Magic: The Gathering. You can only take rigid parsing so far; at some point, the reader is expected to fill in the gaps with either "common sense" or their own judgment.
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