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Greetings all, i have a wild notion of making a summoning oriented Occultist, focusing more around the Conjuration, Necromancy, & Illusion implement schools. Though, the Shadow Beast focus power is a 9th lvl ability... so, that's going to be a late-level investment.
As much as i want to stray from the norm of the transmutation implement school, i do like the idea of the Size Alteration focus power to make my summons larger.
So, Conjuration or Necromancy with Transmutation at first level, pick up the other at 4, and then Illusion at 6th.
Spell Focus (Conjuration) and Augmented Summons are my go-to feats, i would like to get Tattoo Attunement but that would involve getting Varisian Tattoo (as Magic Tattoo isn't PFS legal).
So now- i'm looking for advice on what else to include to make this build not so much dependent on it's summons, without completely dedicated this build to the Transmutation school. I was leaning towards Halfling for the FCB, but i'm open to any race that's PFS legal, of course.
One last thing- i'd like to keep with my idea as best as possible summoning-oriented Occultist. You'd be give a good argument for shifting classes. But suggesting entirely non-related builds is not allowed.
Thanks much.
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Well, tallying my GM credits, it looks like i'll have access to playing either Tiefling or Aasimir.
So, with this one of my last PFS characters, why not? Tiefling Occultist.
Str 13
Dex 15
Con 13
Int 18
Wis 14
Cha 9
Alt. Racial Traits: Soul Seer, Prehensile Tail, Vestigial Wings
Traits: Demonbane Summons, ??
1> Spell Focus (Conjuration), Conjuration & Transmutation Implement schools
2> Necromancy IS
3> Extra Focus: Necromancy (Undead Servitor), Transmutation Focus (Alter Size)
4> ?
5> Augmented Summons; Focus: Conjuration (Mending)
6> -
7> ?, Illusion IS
By third level, I'd have two lackeys, and using the Alter Size focus power to enlarge my skeletons.
Just a thought - if you're going to have summons and a necromantic servant around, it might be handy to give them the odd spell to cast. Look at the talisman crafter archetype.
Spending the level 9 feat on extra focus power to get shadow beast on time might be useful.
I was curious if this would work, biggest hurdle would be how would you put the points into the implements? Like more points in necromancy or conjuration? That to me is where the class tends to collapse on me :/
Sadly this is for PFS and they decided to put something as cool as trapping of warrior into the game but yank it from PFS.
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@AVR- i was looking at the various archetypes. sadly, the Talisman Crafter abilities don't lend well to the spells my implement schools allow me. Cure <X> Wounds from the Conjuration school, Inflict <X> Wounds from Necromancy, Enlarge Person from Transmutation. Invisibility or Mirror Image from Illusion when i take up that implement school at 6th lvl.
@ekibus- probably for the first few levels, i'll be putting enough Focus Points into Transmutation to get the stat bonus. Then the rest into Conjuration.
As i level up, and gain more implement schools, i most likely won't be investing as much into Transmutation.
I still need points in my other focuses to actually summon and use my focus powers.
@pad300- i don't know if Soul Puppets can even take archetypes. But this ability is definitely in theme with this build.
1> Implement School: Conjuration & Transmutation
2> IS: Necromancy
3> FP: Size Alteration (T); Extra FP: Undead Servitor (N)
4> -
5> FP: Soulbound Puppet (N)
6> IS: Illusion
7> FP: Mind over Gravity (T)
8> -
9> FP: Shadow Beasts (I)
I'm actually going back through the class again (havent had a chance to play in a couple months and was working on this character for a bit) Still disappointed the conjuration doesn't get summon. I planned to still summon but I went with a more generalist approach since I couldn't see summons really working as a go to.
Conjuration, you would think is your go to but from a summons end, since you don't get the spells you are left with Servitor which is ok..1 point for a single summon for a minute..standard action isn't bad, but only one summon and it is sorcerer slow in progression.. not bad but not sure if it is worth it...granted you could get cure and some other little perks but I skipped it.
Illusion is definitely good shadow beasts and spells are very nice Resonant Power sucks though.
Necromancy is good but it will be a major drain on your points Soulbound puppet for a point for 10 mins per (honestly why they couldnt make that permanent..) Undead servitor same issue. Spells arent bad, you obviously want animate dead asap.
I would actually say a half elf is the best occultist with the 1/2 bonus to mental focus since you will need every point. I see really no point in going with augment summons..granted if you found a way to cast summons from your spells, please let me know.
Anyways another nice thing to remember is you can use heavy armor and shield without issues if you spend the feat for heavy armor. I went with the haunt collector, Transmutation and abjuration..then divination at 6 was illusion. Level 10 probably necromancy. I planned him as a generalist with summoning coming on later on. Divination for mind's eye will make a gm cry..going half elf I went a bit silly and took skill focus UMD and took the trait to switch umd to int...so I was pretty handy with the wand. I know that isnt the way you are thinking and I am really curious if it will work.
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The main "upside" to Conjuration- is it's a "main focus power" i get it right out of the gate, rather than waiting to learn it through a Focus power as Undead Servant and Shadow Beasts are.
I agree that only one creature sucks- but again: it's a freebie.
I was thinking about maybe going Necroccultist.
Yes, that restricts me to the Necromancy school, upside would be- access to Wizard spell list and a nifty Horror Swarm.
never was well versed in the ethicacy and providence of Raise/Animate Dead... my Bones Shaman is a GM baby mostly...
I think I read thati in PFS [Evil] spells are an alignment infraction and that some fixed and low number of those is an alignment shift (3?), and since evil alignments are not OK there regular use of animate dead is a no-no. Take that with a grain of salt though, I'm no expert.
Ok after downloading the new PFS guide and double checking the core book, there is no rule saying casting a evil spell makes you evil. Although a good cleric is restricted from casting those spells.
The way animate dead goes it can work both ways, some will view it as a evil act, while another might just find it a practical application of materials on hand. Although if you go with Lich/soul stuff that might be harder to justify.
I would veer from necroccultist...that consuming flesh thing is a might evil..but hey call me anti-cannibal :)
So been thinking and going over my own research and here is what I remember. A occultist is more a jack of all trades, they sadly just aren't great at anything, but as a whole they can be useful. The necroccultist basically makes the class worse. I pretty much moved summoning to more of a off thing he does..which really didn't hurt him. Transmutation is plain awesome...imagine getting the archer's bow and use legacy weapon on it (bane X creature) give it back and watch the archer tear through the enemy. Not to mention flight and personally I like telekinetic mastery...just for the fun of it :)
Lol sorry realized I was gonna go into a rant on pros and cons. Personally the best summoner is a Arcanist Occultist, you get some nice summons along with the wizard spell list you can literally focus on summoning and still kick behind with other spells. Augment summoning and superior summoning works just fine and you can even go animate dead if you feel like it. Not to mention a permanent familiar if you want one.
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My friend has an Occultist in PFS, and i don't really want to copy him. i'm also running an Occultist in an Ironfang Invasion campaign.
Though, as entertaining as this build sounds- it's beginning to not pan out mechanically. one Conjuration summons that scales slowly, a skeleton that might be a questionable choice, and illusion's shadow beast takes too long to come on line.
You can still summon...but it is more a tool in your inventory vs a specialization. I've worked out some passable builds but sadly I never get the urge to actually go through with it...there always seems to be a better class to go with it. I could see having a lot of fun with the class in later levels when the points arent as tight and you have more options. Definitely check out the occultist with the arcanist personally that is my favorite attempt at a summoner
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A lot of my builds are more flavor with struggle to be functional.
I know that the Conjuration IS ability is rather weak. hence, that one would be a meat shield, trap detector, or emergency healbot.
my undead servitor would be target of my Size Alteration ability, but that wouldn't come on line until 3rd.
until 9th, i'd have two possibly three meatshields [summons, skeleton, & familiar].
Even then, the saves vs my shadow conjuration.
i can shuffle around my stats, and make myself more combat oriented.
going lackey-heavy is an option, but definitely doesn't warrant going Augment Summons for sure- but still a potentially viable option in the right circumstance...
so, let's brain storm that direction...
Hmm ok. First off those 3 alternate racial dont stack so you need to lose one. Stats seem off too. Haunt collector I think fits with your idea. Pragmatic activator is a must for traits. Augment summons is out of the question because you dont actually summon a monster (servitor acts like summon monster but seems to be a different catagory which kinda negates demonbane summoner) So at level 1 you could take size alteration and I would probably go liberating command and unseen servant. Once you get a wand of cure light you will be able to use that without a umd and while it is nice at level one the wand will see more use after the first adventure. Level 2 necromancy..umm restore corpse i guess.. Seriously!?
At level 3 the servitor is in the same spot as level 1...still summon monster 1 for 1 min that is getting kinda old and unseen servant can do the same for 3 hours now. Only thing you can at 3 is necromantic servant for 30 mins..with restore corpse you have the option of a zombie or skeleton. 12hp would kinda hurt..the idea of enlarging them sounds cool but I feel they would be little more than a speed bump..although giving them a weapon with bane for a minute sounds a bit more useful..so maybe at level 3 take extra focus power soulbound puppet...but here is where the problem begins... You have 8 points to split in 3 implements..you would want at least 3 in trans (but you can only use 2x without losing resonant power) so 5...if you push necromancy at a min you are losing 2 points just for the skeleton and familiar and then whatever you want in conjuration...even if you do 4 points in necro (for 2x summons a day) maybe 1 for conjuration...but is it worth it for a level 1 summon for a minute??
Level 4..level 2 spells (yay) but still a tough call, the lesser animate dead is appealing...probably your best bet even though it is 1 zombie/skeleton, maybe retrain later. Cure moderate in a pinch and maybe versatile weapon. Oh servitor is now a level 2 summon.
Level 5..skip :P
Level 6..illusion school...mirror image!!
Level 7..level 3 spells..animate dead, tansmutation is tough..maybe haste,
Honestly went up to level 9 and kept losing steam. I found conjuration is not worth your time..if it actually gave you the summon spells it would be 100% worth it... I would replace with abjuration, even without putting points in it getting shield, resist energy and resist eneregy communal...are really nice for survival. I would probably go really heavy in abjuration and trans until level 5 and then invest heavily in necro. illusion has nice spells and the shadow beast could be useful but I wouldnt go heavy in it maybe just a few points. Maybe conjuration at level 10..actually nah divination for mind eye and some actually decent spells mind eye also goes with your summoning route.. So maybe between divination and abjuration you would want to make a call on which is more important first.
Sorry spent too much time in this..obviously the arcanist with occultist archtype would give you a lot more and a lot easier.
Agreed there is a lot of moving parts, like I mentioned previously, it always kinda falls apart for me. The tortured paladin is cool, always wanted to do a dwarf one. Biggest concern though is how to get back detect evil losing that with smite evil really sucks...wish it was a typo. Anyways why not go with the arcanist for a summoner?
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As stated above- a friend is already playing an occultist in PFS, and i'm playing one in an Ironfang Invasion game.
I played this character recently, and i mostly held off on summoning and didn't even use the Legacy Weapon ability. i mostly used Size Alteration, as i couldn't roll an initiative higher than 10, and we were a pretty martial heavy party running through the Silverhex Chronicles.
I don't need this build to be optimal, and thinking it over- i don't really need to rely on the Servitors, but i would like to be effective in combat if needed. Conjuration allows me access to Cure Spells, Transmutation to some good buff spells, Necromancy i can either go "Bad touch" to Reanimator, illusion aught to get me some nice control spells.
I do not need the Haunt Collector archetype introducing another class's abilities into an already management heavy class.
The haunt collector would give you a bit more in combat and fits your theme, hence the suggestion. To clarify I'm talking about the other occultist, the archtype from arcanist (summoner focus) It would give you standard action summons that last 1 min per and keeps up with the wizard. Then you can also prepare spells from all the school, with a decent cha you would be able to use wand pretty reliably quickly. It is a random suggestion but would work pretty nicely.
That said legacy weapon becomes godly once people get +1 weapons. Going through the build up until level 9 conjuration really doesn't add anything. Yeah you can heal, but really your spells are better spent elsewhere. Switching umd to int means at level 1 you would have 8 to umd..10 at level 2 and on..so a min 50/50 chance to use it at level 2. Not to mention some spells are just better than a cure spell prime example: Was using my inquisitor and the party was getting ripped apart by some lightning elementals..people were dropping and healing would never keep up... I cast resist energy communal and the encounter became a joke. Also if you are going a summoner's route every time your summons takes a hit that is X damage that no longer needs to be healed. I'm not saying a cure is not useful in a pinch but really there are other classes that wont take such a huge hit. Abjuration is also fun when you can be a off tank (i would pick up heavy armor)
Size alteration is meh..actually scratch that...it sucks with what you are trying to do. 1 round per level and the sword goes from doing 1d6 to 1d8, you lose 2 to ac..granted You could probably double check but I would get a real set of chain shirt and a great sword...that might work...but then same thing with legacy weapon...no penalty and you get a +2 hit/damage and 2d6 for a full minute (which you wont enlarge that long until level 10)..either way though now we are talking about keeping a good number in transmutation as well as necro..illusion means you need to keep your int high..getting the best defense spells in the game is really nice..
Mainly I would look at one or two schools you plan to invest in and then the others maybe a couple points but mainly look at the spells. I think I shall bow out from here...it really wont work the way you want and you can always shove a square peg in a round hole. Good luck.