Character creation above 1st level and wizards adding spells

[Colette Brunel]

I have run 21 playthroughs of various playtest adventures by now, and I have had wizards in some of them.

I would like to say that character creation above 1st level with a wizard in the party is such a pain, because rolls are involved when a wizard wants to add spells to their spellbook, which means that the GM has to oversee the player making those rolls, and there is this annoying randomized element to the character creation process present nowhere else.

I would like to propose that either adding spells to a spellbook should be made roll-less, or adding spells to a spellbook during character creation above 1st level should be made roll-less.

[PsychicPixel]

What???

Quote:

You start with a spellbook worth 10 sp or less (as detailed

on page 187), which you receive for free. The spellbook
contains your choice of 10 arcane cantrips and eight 1st-
level arcane spells. You choose these from the common
spells on the arcane spell list from this book (see page 199)
or from other arcane spells you gain access to.
Each time you gain a level, you automatically add two
more arcane spells to your spellbook. These can be of any
level of spell you can cast. You can also use the Arcana skill
to add other spells that you find, as described on page 146.
If you’re creating a higher-level character, it’s usually
easiest to assume you always picked new spells of the
highest level possible. At an odd-numbered level, this
means that in addition to your total of 10 cantrips, your
spellbook holds two spells of your highest level and four
spells of all lower levels. At an even-numbered level, it
means you’d have 10 cantrips and four spells of every level.

Where in there does it say you have to roll for your spells? As you level you can roll to learn some extra spells or if making a character of a higher level just use the ruling it gives you

[Corwin Icewolf]

I think the op meant paying to add spells beyond what you gain by level up. So if you started at level 2 you'd add two spells to your spell book and if you bought a scroll with your starting gold and added it you'd have to roll arcana. At higher levels that would be a lot of rolling and a lot of math.

[Xenocrat]

Yeah, the rules for adding spells to your spellbook from scrolls or captured spellbooks are in the Arcana skill. There's a pretty good failure chance at the highest spell level it costs a very considerable chunk of your available gold.

[PsychicPixel]

Even then I don't find it much of an issue. Unlike the Playtest I doubt groups are going to be making new high level characters every two weeks so having to handle the process isn't that rough. It also is determined by how many spells the wizard feels like they need on their spell list or instead just have as a scroll since they also have to spend sp/gp to add the scroll they already bought to the list.

Also you aren't rolling every "level" of creating the high level character it would be a 1 bulk rolling for the level they are at. You just need the modifier figure out what the minimum they need on the die and just roll marking each spell as you go. Shouldn't take more than a few minutes.

[Themetricsystem]

Just buy the Scrolls, and leave them in your inventory, or speak with the GM to establish the intent of their purchase. They can either choose to enable to to add them freely with no checks, they can have you roll yourself or with a witness, or they can tell you to roll at the beginning of the first game.

This isn't any different than PF1 Characters who start higher level and wanting to benefit from Crafting Feats for more WBL.

That being said, I'm not sure why we are still requiring wizards to have a PERSONAL Spellbook anymore. It makes sense to ensure you have a copy of every spell you want in written form, but NEEDING it to be in your handwriting to prepare it is.... iffy, especially if the same PC could simply read the scroll to cast it, thereby consuming the Scroll.

Regardless, I don't really see the inclusion of a chance to fail adding Spells to your personal Spellbook at all. It's not interesting, it's not fun, it seems only to be in place as part of the legacy of the 3.X Wizard.

Maybe I'm alone in thinking that though.

[Corwin Icewolf]

Lorewise it's not that it needs to be in your handwriting so much as wizards tend to encode their spells.

And I actually agree on the failure chance being an artifact. It doesn't balance a whole lot, and in 2e a string of bad rolls could throw off wealth by level. It honestly would be better to just charge whatever adding a new spell to a spellbook is worth and be done with it than to make a bunch of rolls.

[tmncx0]

Taking Assurance (Arcana) helps with some lower level spells. Additionally, the Learn an Arcane Spell activity says that the GM sets the DC. So if you don’t want to deal with the randomness, by RAW, set the DC to 10 for all spell levels and players may auto-pass if they pay the feat tax of Assurance (Arcana).

[Xenocrat]

tmncx0 wrote:

Taking Assurance (Arcana) helps with some lower level spells. Additionally, the Learn an Arcane Spell activity says that the GM sets the DC. So if you don’t want to deal with the randomness, by RAW, set the DC to 10 for all spell levels and players may auto-pass if they pay the feat tax of Assurance (Arcana).

It's clear from the "learn an arcane spell" text and table that the GM flexibility to set the DC is intended for him to increase it in the event of a higher rarity, not decrease it. If you're houseruling (which is definitely what abandoning table 4-2 in favor of a DC 10 would be), just get rid of this requirement entirely.

Themetricsystem wrote:

That being said, I'm not sure why we are still requiring wizards to have a PERSONAL Spellbook anymore. It makes sense to ensure you have a copy of every spell you want in written form, but NEEDING it to be in your handwriting to prepare it is.... iffy, especially if the same PC could simply read the scroll to cast it, thereby consuming the Scroll.

I can't answer this philosophically, but mechanically the reason you need a personal spellbook is to avoid the "borrow an arcane spell" arcana skill check that is required to prepare from someone else's book, which has a decent chance of failure.