Who can deliver the most ability score damage?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


I was thinking about how the slayer archetype, the Bloody Jake and how it can damage Dex or Cha in place of sneak attack damage, and how they can learn poison use as a talent. Then there's the Marrowcracker that can do Str or Dex damage on a critical hit and the Destroy Identity feat that causes 2 points of unblockable Cha damage on a crit.

Now I'm wondering who can deliver the most damage to one ability score at a time. Does anyone have any thoughts or ideas about this topic?


Does it have to be one of those 2? BESTOW CURSE will give a -6 to one ability score (and is available to 5th level characters). The greater version will give a -12 to one ability score or a -6 to two (and is available as early as level 11, but usually more like 13).
I believe each of these spells won't stack with themselves (bestow curse twice could give a -6 to CHA and -6 to DEX for example, but couldn't inflict a -12 to a single score), but you could stack bestow curse and greater bestow curse for a -18 to a single ability score (and with quicken spell you could do both in 1 round).

I haven't played around with this method of debuffing otherwise, so you might get more from someone else.


Does ability damage with a save to negate rate lower than that without a save (e.g. ninja pressure points) to you? You might potentially summon a bunch of low level creatures with weak poisons if all you care about is potential ability damage.

Does PFS-compatibility matter to you? An empowered maximised wracking ray spell with all the caster level boosts you can find could work dark wonders, but the basic spell is out by the PFS house rules.

Does the type of ability damage matter to you? Con damage kills but it's generally harder to get. Feeblemind doesn't literally do ability damage, but changing the target's Int and Cha to 1 could set up a one-two punch nicely, besides crippling the enemy in its own right.


Honestly, it could be any source. I was just using the martial courses as first examples, but casters can also definitely be in the running, albeit with a hefty advantage.

As for whether or not it has a save attached, that's just one concern. There's also the ability to access it. Neckbreaker, for example, can inflict a whopping 2d6 Str or Dex damage, but it's not only as part of a grapple, and not only by spending a limited use of Stunning Fist, but it's behind 6 other feats and 12 ranks in Heal. EG., the soonest you can get it is at 12th or 13th level depending on your class!


What are your criteria then? There's no way of guessing what you'd like best without knowing what level you're looking at, and knowing how much you'd discount ability damage which has a save would help too.

If you're not interested in ability damage which has hefty feat taxes and difficult setup that's fine, I can take note of that.


*Taps chin*

I know Great Wyrm Gold Dragons can deal, like, 12 Strength Damage with their Weakening Breath ability. Is focusing on one ability score acceptable, or should it be an effect that can harm any ability score?


My ultimate criteria would be something along the lines of these:

What is the maximum amount of damage a player class can do to one specific ability score in one round?

If an in-depth build is required how long does it need to take to get online, and how much damage does that deal at the end of the build?

If the abilities that deal ability damage allow saves to reduce or negate the damage, what do they require to consistently work on a target?

And does it require magic? If so, to what extent?

Creatures like dragons would be right out as they probably are not legal choices for races in any games.


As criteria for what to look for - these don't answer my questions Reduxist. At all.

If that's the best you can do I'll leave you to it.


Okay, so player abilities. XD Let's set aside third-party stuff, then.

The highest potential ability score damage I can think of comes from poisons. I don't remember anything stronger than 1d6 damage with a frequency of 6 times before it's all used up, so that gives up to 36 damage in an ability score. If we go for the average of a random die roll instead, it's 21 assuming they fail all their saves against it. That said, immunity to poison is fairly common.

Poisons fail the highest-damage-in-one-round criteria, though. The spell Greater Bestow Curse (which appeared in Pathfinder Adventure Path #82) can deal 12 damage to an ability score straight off. It's available to Clerics, Sorcerer/Wizard, and Witches. That's the most powerful spell-based ability damage I can find. Note that it can't reduce a score below 1, though.


For most damage from a single source, the spell Calcific Touch can inflict Nd4 dex damage over N touches...


A vivesectionist alchemist with feral mutagen TWFing with boot blades while under the effect of haste could, in theory, do up to 20STR damage with crippling attacks rogue talent, assuming they sneak attack and hit with all 10 attacks. They probably aren't going to hit with all those attacks in one round, but they could. Probably could get more with a skinwalker wereboar and


Is multiassing allowed? You can prestige into Shadowdancer for 3 levels and gain a Shadow companion, dealing 1d6 Str damage per round by beating the target’s Touch AC. Meanwhile, you can invest in poisons (Signature Poison Rogue Talent ups the DC of a chosen Poison by 2, and Lasting Poison Rogue Talent makes a poisoned weapon last for 2 strikes, potentially increasing the staying power of the Poison by stacking doses). Take the Ninja Trick Rogue Talent for the Pressure Points Trick to add 1 Str damage to your Sneak Attacks. The most Str damage I’ve found in an injury Poison is Rainbow Scarab Shell Poison, which deals 1d4 Str. Take Improved Two-weapon Fighting for 4 attacks per round.

Flank with your Shadow for SA
1d6 Str from Shadow
4 Str from Sneak Attacks
1d4 from Poison
10 Str damage on average per round

I believe 8th level is the lowest this build would work.

The Exchange

Stupidly Expensive, but Huge Amount of Constitution Damage:

BAB 16+
Greater TWF
Quick Draw
Boots of Speed (or some other way of having haste)

Draw and throw 8 (4 from BAB, 3 from TWF, ITWF, GTWF, 1 from haste) Stirge Darts. Each dart animates and attacks the target using your BAB. Each hit deals one point of Con damage, no save. Every dart gets 4 attacks per round from your BAB. That's up to 32 points of Con damage per round (they last for 4 rounds).

Downside is that you just threw 36,008 gp of consumables at someone.

The Exchange

High Potential Dexterity Damage but Low in Practice

BAB 11+
GTWF
2 Rods of Nettles

You can make 6 touch attacks per round, each of which does 1d3 points of Dexterity Damage (Fort save for half). Potential Dexterity damage of up to 18 points per round, forever.

Downside is the save DC is only 14. Which means in practice you'll probably be doing a shade over 4 points of Dex damage per round.


Multiclassing is definitely allowed! I'm thinking about compiling a list of sources that cause ability score damage and maybe that would help a lot of people.


Skinwalker (ragekin) Urogue.
Feats: wilding, aspect of the beast (claws), extra feature.
Traits: adopted (tusked)
Rogue talent: ninja trick (pressure points) [or advanced talent (petrifying strike at level 10]

At level 5 when in your skinwalker form you have 6 natural attacks, 4 of which are primary, each of which deals 1 point of dex or strength damage when you sneak attack. So 6 points of ability damage per round when you full round attack (I can testify from my PFS character that this is pretty crippling)

At level 10 you can pick up petrifying strike, so instead you can deal 12 points of dex damage when you full round attack with sneak attack.

If you want to add equipment to the mix, a wyvern cloak gives you a sting attack to deal an extra attacks worth of ability damage bringing you up to 7 points at level 5 or 14 at level 10.

Sovereign Court

Gunslingers/Swashbucklers can do Str/Dex/Con bleed at level 11 spending 2 points of Grit/Panache as a free action on a hit.

So, a vanilla Gunslinger at level 11 with zero feats (including no rapid reload) and a +1 Distance Dragoon Musket can pretty much auto-hit 3 times and apply all 3 ability score bleeds to anything within 120'.

Alternatively, a Barbarian 12 with: Bloody Fist, Disemboweling Tusks, Boar's Charge, Mighty Swing and some form of rage cycling. (Retraining feats for extra rage powers at 12.) Can charge someone with a Gore attack and automatically threat, automatically confirm, and deal 1d4 Con damage and another 1d4 Con damage with a save (DC 10 +1/2 level +Str mod) in addition to the critical.

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