Spell Kenning, Societal Expectations, and Just What the Point is.

[Spermy The Cat]

So I've been told I need to stick to a character in my Society meetups or I'll lag behind the other players. And since I've always wanted to play one, here I am, playing a Fated Skald.

So since crafting is not allowed, Gunslinger notwithstanding, the Skald gets Extra Performance, which is nice. But then there's the problem with Spell Kenning.

Without Scribe Scroll to get some actual use out of it and slowly stock up on potentially useful stuff, Spell Kenning is uselessly paralyzing in "I might need this"ism. So I'm wondering, since I can't utilize Spell Kenning in the way it was (possibly?) meant to, what good is it for?

[Java Man]

Condition removal, one big buff spell that other party members don't have (or don't have time for), maybe that rare utility spell that will wonderfully solve this puzzle?

[Syries]

Spell Kenning is still a super useful spell. My skald once used it for fog cloud so we didn't have to deal with archers right away.

[Name Violation]

Spell keening is amazing. If you can't do d a good use for it.... idk what to say.

[Name Violation]

The only problem with spell keening is it requires the player to know all the spells to get the maximum use of the power. The more you as a person know about every spell on the bard/cleric/oracle/wizard/sorcerer lists, and the better at strategy you are, determine how good the ability is. If you aren't familiar with a lot of spells, you aren't going to know what one to spontaneously pick to turn the tides on a situation.

[baggageboy]

Spell kenning is probably my most favorite ability in the game. It doe shave it's limitations, but you have SO much versatility to solve problems. The number of different spells you can pull out of you butt is mind boggling.

As mentioned it is difficult to know what spell would be perfect for the situation however. I would suggest taking some time and reading through all of the spells available to you though spell kenning and making a short list of things you might find useful with a quick blurb about them (usually the spell summery is pretty good for this) and print it out to have on hand. then you can reference it quickly.

One point about the fated skald. The altered spell kenning is interesting, Spell kenning isn't great for blasting because of the casting time and fated skald makes that even worse with the level increase to damage spells, so don't plan on blasting with it. Focus on utility spells that no one would know or prepare. you have one of the absolute best abilities in the game available to you learn it and love it :D

[christian kramer]

I too am not sensing why you feel that spell kenning is dead weight.

Just keep a small list (10) or bigger if you like of either incredibly powerful spells at each level that the bard does not have access to, or simply incredibly versatile utility spells.

Sure it takes a some extra work knowing expanded spell lists, but this is essentially the Mnemonic Vestment. A 5000 gp item often considered one that can make sorcerers even more powerful than wizards.

[Spermy The Cat]

Kramer, you misunderstand. I know full-well that Spell Kenning in amazingly useful, and I've heard stories where DMs use Skalds to make the player's life miserable.

My issue is that, without being able to use Scribe Scroll to pad your scroll collection, and because you can use it only once a day at level five, it turns into something so potentially valuable I'll never use it for fear of something more important happening.

It's like in a Fire Emblem game where you'll never use the good healing potions because they're expensive and you never know when you'll really need them, you know? It's straight-up option paralysis.

I admit, though, that I made this thread in a moment of passion, when I realized I wouldn't be able to use Spell Kenning to have an emergency Remove Curse or Fire Snake or some third thing. But seeing as how having Spell Kenning is obviously much better than not being able to use it, I want to change my question a bit.

What spells are good spells for Spell Kenning? I may as well start making a list to go by.

[Belafon]

Honestly, I use Spell Kenning whenever someone says “if only we had (spell x).” I don’t go out of my way to look for places to use it. But if there’s a point where it comes in handy, I use it. I too will admit I had to work to shift my mindset from “if I use it I won’t have it” to “if I don’t use it, I might as well not have it.”

Most common uses:
-Remove X line of cleric spells
-Protection from/magic circle against X
-Wizard and bard utility spells for bypassing noncombat obstacles
-Fighting golems (who are often seriously negatively affected by one rarely prepared spell)

[Cavall]

Other than paladins saves, I cant think of a more powerful and versatile ability I'd rather have than spell kenning.

You use it every time someone says "well. We are f+&%ed."

[Derklord]

Cavall wrote:

Other than paladins saves, I cant think of a more powerful and versatile ability I'd rather have than spell kenning.

Well "eidolon" springs to mind... ;-)

Need to find an invisible enemy? Glitterdust/See Invisibility. Fog obscures your vision? Ashen Path. Enemy spellcaster's giving you grief (or you need to shut down his Echolocation spell so that your Alchemist buddy's sand bombs affect him)? Silence. Enemy archers raining death at you Wind Wall. Need to go into a volcano or something? Resist Energy. Need to pass through a wall? Stone Shape. Need to reach the castle quickly? Communal Mount. Lights are out? Darkvision. Party needs to go underwater? Water Breathing. Important NPC doesn't speak your language? Tongues.

Also, half the spells in the healing subschool.

[Dave Justus]

You of course can pad a scroll collection without having scribe scroll, it is just a matter of getting those scrolls. Spell kenning providing you extra gold via scribe scroll isn't going to happen in PFS, making it weaker in a sense. Of course PFS has different balances for wealth and consumables in any event.

I can certainly understand the concept of disliking 1/day abilities. If you use it early, you might really wish you had kept it, and if you try to save it for when you really really need it, often you won't use it at all. 3/day abilities are nicer for that sort of thing since you can use it a couple times when it seems useful and save one use for that emergency, and not mind too much if you don't use that last one.

You will have to decide how you want to deal with this ranging from burning up that resource at the first opportunity to being a miser that will only use it if the option is that or certain death. If you can't find a balance point you like, and it bothers you and makes it 'unfun' then obviously you need to find something else to play.