Magus - how to "drain" acane pool points?


Advice


Have a Player in our group fielding a Sylph Magus, taking Windy Escape multiple times for a day, then spending arcane pool points to recover the spell over and over as needed.

We're at the point now where they are facing opponents with multiple attacks - but still, each attack after the first (which is windy escaped) has a lower chance of actually hitting.

I can't just chronically engineer surprise or flat-footed encounter conditions... I'd like to see what options others may use to hit a magus in his/her arcane pool. What are you favorite scenarios to cause a Magus to spend pool points?

Silver Crusade

Just give them a magic weapon/amulet of mighty fists/wand of magic weapon or magic fang. Windy Escape doesn't negate an attack, it just gives you DR 10/magic. And only against the first attack, so multiple attackers really mess with the strategy.


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Windy escape is less good for avoiding damage than a lot of other things. The answer here is probably just "don't worry about it".

It only works against 1 attack, it only gives DR:10/magic, so anyone who does big hits can still do damage. Anyone with a magic weapon deals full damage anyway.

Maybe double check they're doing everything properly so that it is balanced:

- Check that they're spending their arcane pool points correctly.
- Check they're using the rules for immediate actions correctly - If you use an immediate action on someone elses turn you can't use a swift action on your next turn. This means they can't use windy escape (immediate) then spell recall (swift) in 2 consecutive rounds.

Seriously though, things like Mirror Image will stop more damage.


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Val'bryn2 wrote:
Just give them a magic weapon/amulet of mighty fists/wand of magic weapon or magic fang. Windy Escape doesn't negate an attack, it just gives you DR 10/magic. And only against the first attack, so multiple attackers really mess with the strategy.

Magic weapons/amulets on too many encounters will inflate party wealth and cause more problems than it solves.


Volkard Abendroth wrote:
Val'bryn2 wrote:
Just give them a magic weapon/amulet of mighty fists/wand of magic weapon or magic fang. Windy Escape doesn't negate an attack, it just gives you DR 10/magic. And only against the first attack, so multiple attackers really mess with the strategy.
Magic weapons/amulets on too many encounters will inflate party wealth and cause more problems than it solves.

Potion of magic fang/oil of magic weapon.


Also things like Vital Strike/Clustered Shot will reduce the effectiveness of the spell without completely bypassing it.

Silver Crusade

Volkard Abendroth wrote:
Magic weapons/amulets on too many encounters will inflate party wealth and cause more problems than it solves.

When you're getting to the level of multiple attacks by NPCs, you're getting to the level where they most likely have magical weapons anyway. Just a quick check through the NPC archives, most warrior types are going to have a magic weapon between levels 5 and 6.


...why is this a problem? Use MONSTERS, not NPCs. Monsters that attack with claws, bite, multiple limbs don't get itterative attacks, they get one swing with each appropriate limb at full BAB or -5 for secondary attacks.

Something like a feline gets 2 claws, 1 bite and often a rake. The 2 claws and bite are all full BAB usually and the rake is an automatic add in if the conditions are met. DR 10 is only going to block 1 shot.

Something like a Zombie that gets 2 slams is the same. The DR 10 only works on one.

And a Magus doesn't have that big of a pool. Force the PCs into 6 encounters and I bet that magus runs dry at about encounter 3. And that magus will regret not having any points left to enchant his weapon.


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Doesn't this problem solve itself?

1. Windy escape only protects against one attack. As an immediate action, that means the magus can at most protect against one attack per round. Any creature with multiple attacks is going to get through this.
2. Recalling the spell uses a swift action, meaning that the magus can't have used windy escape since after their last turn.
3. Windy escape only reduces the damage dealt by 10, and then only if the attack isn't from a magic weapon.

And finally, more to your question:

4. Recalling the spell costs a point from the magus's arcane pool.

Seems like the simplest way to drain the magus's arcane pool is to hit the magus until they run out of arcane pool points.


eldritch claws will help bypass dr/magic just swap out one of the base creatures feats for it and you are good to go.


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doomman47 wrote:
eldritch claws will help bypass dr/magic just swap out one of the base creatures feats for it and you are good to go.

I strongly recommend only doing this if there's a reasonable in-game explanation for doing so. If the opponent knows the PC's weakness and has the capacity to train/whatever to acquire such an enhancement to deal with said weakness, great. But artificially changing creatures the PCs happen to encounter to exploit their weaknesses is an excellent way to break verisimilitude and make the player feel (rightly) that their choices are being invalidated.


blahpers wrote:
doomman47 wrote:
eldritch claws will help bypass dr/magic just swap out one of the base creatures feats for it and you are good to go.
I strongly recommend only doing this if there's a reasonable in-game explanation for doing so. If the opponent knows the PC's weakness and has the capacity to train/whatever to acquire such an enhancement to deal with said weakness, great. But artificially changing creatures the PCs happen to encounter to exploit their weaknesses is an excellent way to break verisimilitude and make the player feel (rightly) that their choices are being invalidated.

The same also applies to opponents suddenly carrying oils of magic weapon/magic fang.

The problem with Windy Escape will resolve itself in a level or two.

It eats up too much of the magi's action economy for him to keep using it.


Creatures with dr/magic also auto bypass dr/magic with natural attacks.

Silver Crusade

@Volkard. Not as much as you may think. I agree that substituting Eldritch Claws is a bad move, because there is no advantage to having Eldritch Claws over your base, but Magic Weapon/Fang gives you a bonus in addition to overcoming the DR, it's actually a reasonable choice. Now, if I were to make an adventure that included monsters with DR magic or Silver, say lycanthropes, and they shared territory, competing for resources with something, say minotaurs, I would probably trade Great Fortitude for Eldritch Claws, to indicate evolution that allows them to compete

Sovereign Court

The Magus is using Arcane Pool for DR 10/1 attack? I mean... you would be so lucky. Are they not spending the points on adding Keen to their weapon every fight? Not using it to bring back that 10d6 shocking grasp?


So the consensus here seems to b: "Don't worry about it."

To put it in a less patronising way: Every class has the ability to be powercul at certain levels. Letting a character shine for a level or two won't break the game, and it will let the player enjoy their power fantasy. You'll probably find that in a level or 2 another character will pick up a feat/ability that pulls them out front for a while. Gunslingers at level 5 suddenly find they're able to kill anything. Alchemists at 8 can do the same. At low levels the barbarian and fighter will outshine everyone simply because they can take a few hits without dying, while at high levels the wizard/cleric can alter the course of history in a way that most other classes couldn't dream of. You as the GM have to try to balance this un-balanced equation, but remember you're not trying to balance them to a zero sum, you're trying to balance them for FUN! Fun for the overpowered characrer, fun for their allies who are remporarily playing second fiddle, and fun for yourself (remember you're a player too). If one character is impossible to hit, give them challenges where they can take advantage of that, but something that makes them think. If they have to protect some orphans then putting themself in harms way because they know they can take the hit might be just the thing. Maybe try giving them a longer adventuring day so they run out of AP points (don't do this all the time or it'll get old) and see what they come up with. Try to let them have their moment, it'll pass soon enough and you'll have ankther challenge to face once it passes.
(Sorry too tired to organise my thoughts, i hope that helps =P )

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