Please make 3D either fully explicit or fully abstract, not half each.

[hyphz]

So, I'm trying to prepare for Sombrefell Hall tomorrow, and again running into a problem that pretty much every d20 game has had (and that I'd really hope PF2 could fix): half-assed 3D rules.

There's at least two flying opponents in the adventure, and an instance where opponents are climbing and the time they take to do so is important, but rules for how 3D combat work are sparse at best. There's no statement of how tall the rooms are, the balcony is, etc. This value makes a significant difference to the timing of parts of the adventure and can turn some encounters from trivial to lethal and back again.

So I ask. If you are going to have proper 3D in your game, then have proper 3D in your game. This doesn't require massive charts and Pythagorean calculations, but it does need at least -
- vertical dimensions on maps.
- vertical reach and attackable area, based on PC height and similar.
- consideration of jumping attacks.
- consideration of crouching or ducking (not the same as falling prone) to avoid high attacks.

Alternatively, go with what something like Strike does and just make Flying a condition where you are either Flying or not, and we don't worry about the exact positions.

[master_marshmallow]

I like aerial suspension being a condition, and giving it boni.

[Tholomyes]

We haven't started Sombrefell Hall yet, so I skipped over most of the post that might have spoilers, but I do agree in general, and even going back to the last part, that showed it's issues in the manticore fight, where I used the scroll of fly on the fighter, and we had to calculate movement on three different axes using the d20 diagonal-distance calculation, then later had to determine whether the rules for stepping were different in mid-air, and other aerial nonsense and where normally this is something we might handwave, because this was a playtest we wanted to stick to the rules as much as possible, and it took nearly as long as the rest of the fight.

[EberronHoward]

It's hidden, but the balconies of the upper room are said to be 10 ft above the ground outside. I extrapolated that the attic was 10 ft. higher.

But agreed, a sidebar that gives better dimensions of the area would be nice.

[DerNils]

100% agreed - with the number of flying opponents, clarifying if you can make a strike at the Apex of a high jump and similar Things are very often needed.

[masda_gib]

There are the barbarian feats Sudden Leap and shark monster abilities that allow an attack at the apex of a jump.
So I take it's normally not possible. Or it takes an additional action. So yeah, clarification needed.