Dual-Handed Assault needs a buff following recent rules changes


Skills, Feats, Equipment & Spells


2 people marked this as a favorite.
Rulebook Updates wrote:
Page 307—In Basic Actions, in Drop, at the end of the first sentence before the period, add “or release your grip from one hand while continuing to hold it in the other”.

meaning that the full text is now

Rulebook wrote:
You drop an item you’re holding in your hand or hands, or release your grip from one hand while continuing to hold it in the other. Unlike most manipulate actions, Drop does not trigger reactions such as Attack of Opportunity.

So it takes 1 Action to change from 1 to 2 handed grip, while it's a free action to change from 2 to 1 handed grip.

As a result, the Fighter feat Dual-Handed Assault's only benefits are a meager non-scaling +2 circumstance bonus to damage, and the fact that it doesn't interrupt "any stance or fighter feat effect that requires you to have one hand free".

Unless the above were the intended benefits of Dual-Handed Assault from the beginning, I think that it needs a bit of a buff considering that it "lost" the advantage of saving you 1 action every time you use it.

I think that Dual-Handed Assault could do with being reduced to 1 action. This means that, as before, a character with Dual-Handed Assault has an action advantage over someone without the feat.

Importantly, all Fighter feats that require a free hand and make attacks (such as Combat Grab or Dueling Riposte) state that you make a Strike, so they cannot be used to make a Dual-Handed Assault. So it's not as if this change would allow a Fighter to gain Greatsword levels of damage all the time. There would still be a tradeoff between making a "regular" attack and using Dual-Handed Assault for a bit more damage, or using one of their other Fighter feats and dealing one-handed damage.


This confuses me.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

I agree with this proposed change. DHA has the Open trait, so you can only use get this bonus damage once per turn, meaning you don't get to steal the 2-handed Fighter's thunder.


Long John wrote:
This confuses me.

Hopefully I can help?

When the initial rules released, it cost an action to shift your grip on a weapon from 2 hands to 1 hand. Which meant that, by using Dual-Handed Assault, you saved 1 action compared to shift grip -> Strike -> shift grip.

Now however, shifting from 2 hands to 1 hand counts as "dropping" a weapon and is thus a Free action. This means that action-wise, Dual-Handed Assault doesn't help anyone over someone without the feat.

Thus, I feel Dual-Handed Assault needs some buff to compensate, such as changing it to only cost 1 action. This would put it roughly back on-par with its usefulness originally.

Designer

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Noted, thanks!


Mark Seifter wrote:
Noted, thanks!

Thanks Mark! Glad to see that you guys are still taking feedback into account, even on comparatively "minor" issues.

Designer

4 people marked this as a favorite.

Most of my list-o-things are comparatively "minor" issues. But as a voracious player and GM of PF1 (and follower of FAQs and errata), one thing I learned is that a "minor" issue that affects something in your PC's build is actually a major issue for that player, since it all becomes really personal at that point (whereas on a monster, "minor" is generally actually minor).


2 people marked this as a favorite.

Making Dual-Handed Assault a single action would be a nice bonus for combat-grab oriented characters, who might otherwise prefer to open with an ordinary strike action and then grab (and will definitely prefer to do this once certain strike becomes available).

I built one of these and ended up taking no "Open" feats other than sudden charge, which you're not going to want to do when the enemies are already close.


Fun fact: my enchanted gauntlet/doubling ring "exploit" relies heavily on "Dual Handed Assault" keeping your off hand "free" and thus still wielding the gauntlet which in turn allows you to strike with your main hand sword while still maintaining the effects of the doubling ring.

Weeeeeee

Also, doesn't the feat still have a meaningful effect when you are using a weapon without the "Two-Hand 1d12" trait?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Excaliburproxy wrote:

Fun fact: my enchanted gauntlet/doubling ring "exploit" relies heavily on "Dual Handed Assault" keeping your off hand "free" and thus still wielding the gauntlet which in turn allows you to strike with your main hand sword while still maintaining the effects of the doubling ring.

Weeeeeee

Also, doesn't the feat still have a meaningful effect when you are using a weapon without the "Two-Hand 1d12" trait?

Not really, no. If the weapon doesn't have the Two-Hand trait, the damage from Dual-Handed Assault is worse than just making two Strikes.

[For a 1d6 weapon with +5 potency and ~60% accuracy, DHA boosts the dice to d8 and adds a single +2 bonus, for a total damage of 23.8 damage; while making two Strikes instead has a total average damage of 30.8.]

Community / Forums / Archive / Pathfinder / Playtests & Prerelease Discussions / Pathfinder Playtest / Player Rules / Skills, Feats, Equipment & Spells / Dual-Handed Assault needs a buff following recent rules changes All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Skills, Feats, Equipment & Spells