RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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So, casting Summon Monster is now a 3-action spell, rather than taking 1 full round of casting. But does the summoned creature get to take an action when the spell is completed? Or does it need to wait until the next round when the caster Concentrates on the spell?
The spell says, "Summoned creatures have 2 actions per turn
(which they use when you Concentrate on the Spell) and can’t
use reactions." So it would seem that it doesn't get to act on the first round. But I could also see an argument that the creature should be able to act on the first round, because the casting of the spell itself counts as concentrating on it.
because the casting of the spell itself counts as concentrating on it.
I see nothing in the book to support this.
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Page 195, “Summoned,” second paragraph, first sentence. They act when you cast.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Page 195, “Summoned,” second paragraph, first sentence. They act when you cast.
Aha! That makes sense. They probably ought to call that out in the spell description, since it's non-obvious from the text of the spell itself that says they get to act right away.
Page 195, “Summoned,” second paragraph, first sentence. They act when you cast.Aha! That makes sense. They probably ought to call that out in the spell description, since it's non-obvious from the text of the spell itself that says they get to act right away.
I disagree. A benefit of using traits (like Summoned) is that there only needs to be a single place where the rule is explained in detail for players to know how all summoned creatures work. Repeating the info in every single spell or power that summons creatures will take up too much space in the rulebook, not to mention future books that have spells or powers duplicating this. That space is better used for new content, not repeating what is explained elsewhere.
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Page 195, “Summoned,” second paragraph, first sentence. They act when you cast.RAW I think you're wrong - they used an "and" instead of an "or"; ie you need both to have completed the spell and had a concentrate action... but I think you are correct RAI.
Are you sure?
"You do Z when you do X and when you do Y" to me sounds like you can do Z when you do either one of X or Y.
If the completion of the summoning was an AND requirement (can only do Z after X and Y) then they could have left it off, because you can't concentrate on a spell that hasn't been cast.
Casting itself, or at least the Verbal Casting action, inherently has the Concentrate tag. I'd allow it.
Page 195, “Summoned,” second paragraph, first sentence. They act when you cast.Aha! That makes sense. They probably ought to call that out in the spell description, since it's non-obvious from the text of the spell itself that says they get to act right away.
Yes I was even at a convention earlier today where a gm that has run a lot of playtest for me got this wrong and told me about it and he has 5 stars of first edition.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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I disagree. A benefit of using traits (like Summoned) is that there only needs to be a single place where the rule is explained in detail for players to know how all summoned creatures work. Repeating the info in every single spell or power that summons creatures will take up too much space in the rulebook, not to mention future books that have spells or powers duplicating this. That space is better used for new content, not repeating what is explained elsewhere.Page 195, “Summoned,” second paragraph, first sentence. They act when you cast.Aha! That makes sense. They probably ought to call that out in the spell description, since it's non-obvious from the text of the spell itself that says they get to act right away.
I disagree. The disadvantage of using traits (like Summoned) is that the rules for things are scattered all throughout the book, and it's not easy to tell where to find all the rules that apply to a given spell/feat/action/whatever. Because the spell includes some detail about how summoned creatures act, but not all of it, the player might not realize that they need to do more research in order to understand exactly how the rule works.
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IMHO the problem isn't that there is or isn't a trait, it's that the rulebook tries to have it both ways (in this instance). The spell should say "you get a summoned creature as per page 195" and not repeat any of that page's details.
IMHO the problem isn't that there is or isn't a trait, it's that the rulebook tries to have it both ways (in this instance). The spell should say "you get a summoned creature as per page 195" and not repeat any of that page's details.
Yup, I'd say this is the ideal way to have the rules referenced.