Same Old Spell Preparation

[ClanPsi]

Why is spell preparation still so clunky and outdated? 5e isn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but they absolutely nailed spell preparation. Please, for the love of god, change your spell prep system to be more like 5e. Having to prepare each and every casting of a spell is beyond ridiculous, not fun at all, and completely unnecessary when there already exist way better options.

[cadrack]

Spell preparation is literally the mechanic I hate more then any other in every edition. I'm perfectly okay with having to decide which spells to prepare every day but having to decide how many times I'll be able to cast each one? This is literately the only thing that has kept me from playing a Wizard (one of my favorite classes in concept) most of the time and typically selecting Sorcerer instead. My group agrees with this train of thought as well.

We have a house rule that prepared casters basically select their "spells known" every day, equaling their spell slots, and then cast like a spontaneous caster. We feel this is still balanced as spontaneous casters still cast more spells per day then prepared casters. Of course it looks like there is no real difference between prepared and spontaneous casters in PF2 when it comes to spells per day and i think that is a mistake.

I have no issue with the Bard's spells per day as it is also capable of decent non-magical combat, but the Sorcerer should have more then the Wizard. One more for each spell level. The trade off between the two classes is supposed to be that Wizards potentially have access to a dizzying array of spells when selecting their spells for the day, while Sorcerers instead had a deeper reserve of magic power but can only occasionally swap out a spell.

[Jason S]

cadrack wrote:

Spell preparation is literally the mechanic I hate more then any other in every edition. I'm perfectly okay with having to decide which spells to prepare every day but having to decide how many times I'll be able to cast each one?

This is a really good idea. Is that how 5E works?

[Bardarok]

Jason S wrote:

cadrack wrote:

Spell preparation is literally the mechanic I hate more then any other in every edition. I'm perfectly okay with having to decide which spells to prepare every day but having to decide how many times I'll be able to cast each one?

This is a really good idea. Is that how 5E works?

Yah in 5e you prepare lvl + mod spells in a given day from your spellbook or class list (you can choose how many of each level)

Then you can use your spell slots to cast any spell that "fits" in that spell slot so lvl one spells fit anywhere lvl 2 require lvl 2 or higher slot. Some spells get heightening automatically if they are cast using a higher spell slot than their minimum.

It works pretty well though spontaneous casters are straight up worse the way 5e does it. They could fix that by having spells known be greater than the daily spells prepared instead of less for some reason.

[CommanderCoyler]

I will add my agreement to this and also:
Preparing heightened spells (and especially learning them as a spontaneous caster) the pf2 way feels a lot worse than the 3.5 way of having multiple versions of spells (e.g. cure X wounds) to me at least. I know it's to the same effect, but when preparing for example a heal spell at level 3 I don't feel like I'll get as much out of it.

[Bjørn Røyrvik]

As a fan of the classic preparation style, I dislike the arcanist/5e variant.

[Siro]

I'm slight towards keeping the system has is, but more so for balance purposes then love for it. I believe having to prepare spells is the price paid for having access to all the spells on the list {note statement does apply a bit more to classes like Clerics and Druids, but Wizards can also achieve this within the limitations to there spell book.)

For spontanous casters, casting from a limited list (downtime activity only to swap) is the price paid for being able to decide what spell slots are used for in the moment.

Now, to be fair, I wouldn't mind a system which has a way of granting prepared casters a bit of spontaneity/lessening the hassle of preparing each day , but not at the expense of spontaneous casters being overshadowed because of it. {Making one option better can also then make the other option worse if not done/ balanced right. If you make a prepared casters ability to cast spells Spontaneously, closer to that of Spontaneous caster, without giving something up for it, then the Spontaneous caster is weaker by comparison, has then the Prepared caster can roughly do there job, while still being able to swap out spells for more ideal ones, as situations pop up.)

[CommanderCoyler]

Siro wrote:

I'm slight towards keeping the system has is, but more so for balance purposes then love for it. I believe having to prepare spells is the price paid for having access to all the spells on the list {note statement does apply a bit more to classes like Clerics and Druids, but Wizards can also achieve this within the limitations to there spell book.)

For spontanous casters, casting from a limited list (downtime activity only to swap) is the price paid for being able to decide what spell slots are used for in the moment.

Now, to be fair, I wouldn't mind a system which has a way of granting prepared casters a bit of spontaneity/lessening the hassle of preparing each day , but not at the expense of spontaneous casters being overshadowed because of it. {Making one option better can also then make the other option worse if not done/ balanced right. If you make a prepared casters ability to cast spells Spontaneously, closer to that of Spontaneous caster, without giving something up for it, then the Spontaneous caster is weaker by comparison, has then the Prepared caster can roughly do there job, while still being able to swap out spells for more ideal ones, as situations pop up.)

Sponteneous casters are always going to be overshadowed. Prepared casters know their whole spell list (effectively in the case of Wizards), and can swap out spells daily to suit what they're doing. Spontaneous casters get stuck with the same spells for most of the adventure.

5e helps to balance this by giving spontaneous casters better/more class features than prepared (who, I might add, still know their entire spell lists), for example: Sorcerers get sole access to metamagic in 5e.