That Cleric Initiative


General Discussion

Sovereign Court

With Initiative based off Perception (usually) instead of Dex, Clerics and Druids (due to higher WIS, which feeds Perception) are going to be the one who goes first.

With the new to-hit system and Emblazon Symbol, Clerics are getting most of the same baseline stuff Fighters get, with strong spellcasting (Sarenrae hands out Fireball!), and a truckload of healing, all while going first.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

Remember that Fighters, Rangers, Rogues, Barbarians, are experts instead of trained so they will count as having a +1, and that that goes up to master for most of those classes as well. The cleric and druid probably have a +4, but most fighters will probably have at least a +2 or 3 so it is not the most terribly skewed. Wizards on the other hand seem like they are must less likely to be going first.


When we talk about it, it doesn't really make sense that Wisdom PCs go first.

In a fight, who would strike first, the wise sage or Bruce Lee? Bruce Lee.

In certain circumstances (where the enemy is known) a Dex-based initialize still makes a lot more sense than Wisdom.


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Well, to be fair, Bruce Lee in this system would be a Monk, and Monks do want high Wis, no?

Personally, I think it should be Int-based, but then I've always seen the mental attributes as foils of the physical attributes.

Str <-> Cha -- Application of physical or mental prowess
Dex <-> Int -- Application of physical or mental quickness
Con <-> Wis -- Application of physical or mental resilience/fortitude

Making initiative Int-based would also give an increased role to Intelligence which some are pointing out as... not very useful.


The idea with making it perception based is that going first is usually determined by who spots the enemy first, which works pretty dandy as a rule of thumb.

Jason, in the circumstances you mention where the enemy is known there's a good chance the player will have agency to choose a Dex based skill anyway. Stealth is the most obvious one, but you if you are talking to someone and you decide to try and take them by surprise, you could roll thievery for palming the knife for example. But in my short play test time I've also seen athletics used for imitative when the barbarian was sprinting into new rooms or into battle.

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