http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateMagic/spells/marionettePossessio n.html
"You project your soul out of your body and into the body of a willing creature."
"Unconscious creatures are automatically considered willing"
A player wants to be able to knock out foes and then possess them with Marionette Possession with no saving throw.
This...doesn't seem quite right to me but seems it might be "correct" RAW.
Reading the rules that would correct
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/magic.html#aiming-a-spell
That said if you beat someone over the head or drug them so they are unconscious I would think it would be reasonable to say that just because are now possessed doesn't make the "body's" condition go away.
They can do it they just better have their buddy bring some smelling salts.
Marionette Possession spell on Archive of Nethys.
It requires a piece of paper with the target's name as a material component. That can be tricky if foes are using pseudonyms. Writing the name is going to take some time (getting materials out, writing the name...).
It is true that unconscious creatures are considered willing for spell purposes. HP damage remains and would have to be cured AFTER the possession by an ally or smelling salts as an option.
The target can converse with the caster after being possessed.
Simple spells like Protection From Evil block Marionette Possession.
net-diver wrote: That said if you beat someone over the head or drug them so they are unconscious I would think it would be reasonable to say that just because are now possessed doesn't make the "body's" condition go away.
They can do it they just better have their buddy bring some smelling salts.
Oh, they're planning on spamming CLW wands or other healing spells. They're just hoping to be able to do things like knock out a Fire Giant and then have the wizard possess it while the party is level 6.
Azothath wrote: It requires a piece of paper with the target's name as a material component. That can be tricky if foes are using pseudonyms. Writing the name is going to take some time (getting materials out, writing the name...). They have an unconscious defeated giant/dire bear/whatever -- they have the time they need.
What exactly determines the creature's name?
I think you have to walk the middle line on what a creature's name is. Truenames are a bit over the top and beyond what you'd need for a spell component. Covert names shouldn't work, as that's what they're for. So the name on the character sheet would do for a PC. For a NPC the GM is going to be the arbiter. It could range from "She"(tough barbarian warlord played by Sandahl Bergman) to "Mister Mxyzptlk". Language should be the native tongue of the name bearer. IF the willing target was really willing, he'd say, my name is "Zathras"...
a silly argument might be that only intelligent creatures with a language have a name... which would restrict the spell usage a bit... lol, welcome to PFS!
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Or you could just grab Eschew Material Components or False Focus and avoid the issue entirely.
deuxhero wrote: Or you could just grab Eschew Material Components or False Focus and avoid the issue entirely. Does that mean you think it should be a valid option to possess any unconscious foe and basically use it as a synthesist summoner would?
Depends on how they were made unconscious. I'd rule "You posessed them, but the body is still unconscious", so it would only work if the unconsciousness was easily removed (Sleep is the obvious one, have another PC slap your puppet after your body falls limp to wake it up).
You still have your real body to deal with.
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deuxhero wrote: Or you could just grab Eschew Material Components or False Focus and avoid the issue entirely. You could if the piece of paper was a material component, but since it is a focus that won't work.
deuxhero wrote: so it would only work if the unconsciousness was easily removed Why is that? Is something stopping you from spamming CLW wands on the Fire Giant the level 6 party just possessed?
Assuming a conscious willing subject, the spell works as intended.
What happens if during the course of the spell, the subject doesn't want to share his body any longer? Let's say he has been duped as of the motives of the spellcaster. Does the spell end or does the spell continue as what mattered was willingness at spellcasting, regardless of later on?
If all that matters is conditions at spellcasting, then an unconscious target is indeed acceptable.
Don't forget that the range isn't immense.
Dave Justus wrote: deuxhero wrote: Or you could just grab Eschew Material Components or False Focus and avoid the issue entirely. You could if the piece of paper was a material component, but since it is a focus that won't work. Oh, so it is. Then it wouldn't work.
I guess you could write all the most common names for a demographic on a big piece of paper and have a decent chance of working.
Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber
The second level spell Blood Biography can give you the name of a unconscious creature (as well as its gender, race & profession).
All you need is access to a small sample of blood, which can be from an old stain, not just freshly drawn from the subject.
I actually outed a secret shapeshifter NPC in one game by using the spell on a weapon that had knicked the NPC before she fled. Divination for the win!
*EDIT*
Spell is 2nd level for a bard, 3rd for wizards.
using a local phone book (or file of tax records) as the focus is an amusing idea, if there actually is such a thing that is obtainable. Blood Biography seems more sure fire, it just adds to the requirements to make this process work.
Personally I think Magic Jar is more practical.
I'd still posit that creatures without a language don't have a name. Self-Identifying Names require a language.
Dave Justus wrote: deuxhero wrote: Or you could just grab Eschew Materials or False Focus and avoid the issue entirely. You could if the piece of paper was a material component, but since it is a focus that won't work. Linkified and corrected names.
So instead, use a Robe of Components, since it does do foci.
/cevah
I don't believe the Robe produces a paper with the correct name on it(unless the user knows the name and/or provides it to the robe). It'll be an area of GM wrangling. A piece of paper with a name on it is necessary for the spellcasting, the spell effect fails if it is the wrong name (failure is a valid option).
I mean, possession does the same thing, albeit at a bit higher level, and it needs no focus. I wouldn't worry too much about the focus being bypassed.
well - they're just trying to (I'll say) be efficient with a lower level spell... it's reasonable theory and being efficient is a good thing. Using it on enemies goes against the design of the spell but have at it... just have to set it up properly.
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