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I ran my first session of the playtest last night and after mulling over it today I still think it is too much.
Whether the player succeeds for fails, it really doesn't matter, every other PC will benefit from the dropped AC of the creature. During the session, it was driving me bananas trying to keep track of the flat footed condition on all these creatures, and it was essentially a free -2 AC debuff.
In my opinion, I think the failure should result in just no effect. You try to grab someone, and you don't. You try to attack and you miss, you don't get to make them flat-footed and you don't get to hit, respectively.
Has anyone else dealt with this fighter feat?
I like that fighters can make people flat-footed even if they're not hurting them in the process- this seems like a thing fighters should be very good at.
Combat grab is good, but not to good. It is not my first pick, I do grab it later. There are a lot of good fighter press abilities that you have to pick from.
Well, it kind of seems like you need something good to make up for not having either shield or two hander. The default position of a 1 hand+empty fighting style is generally giving up either defense or defense versus other fighting styles, so its traits need to be stronger to make up for it.
Also, a lot of fighter feats can deal out flat footed even on a failure. Brutish Shove does it next level. Aggressive Shield can flat footed without a roll. Shatter Defenses can flat footed. So can Debilitating Shot, and Reeling Blow.
I just think that giving up a potential 2 AC to give, potentially, all allies +2 to hit for 1 action on a success of a failure is a very lopsided trade-off. Yea, the monster can leave the space, and yea it has to be on a second strike, but still. Failing and getting basically the same result as a success, is not great.
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A success deals your weapon damage, a failure does not. I feel like that's enough of a difference.
A success deals your weapon damage, a failure does not. I feel like that's enough of a difference.
A success deals unarmed damage because is it not a grab? Is that even stipulated in the ability?
Ah yeah, it is a "strike". Still, the failure should be not as good as the success.
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A success deals your weapon damage, a failure does not. I feel like that's enough of a difference.A success deals unarmed damage because is it not a grab? Is that even stipulated in the ability?
Combat Grab says "Make a Strike" which can be done with any weapon you have ready (including an unarmed strike). I had interpreted the ability, which requires one weapon and one unused hand, as "you slash/stab with your weapon in one hand, and grab with your open hand, unbalancing your opponent."
I mean, it doesn't say anywhere that this has to be an unarmed strike.
Agreed, I think it’s clear you do weapon damage while grabbing with the free hand.
The failure result only makes the target flat-footed until the end of the Fighter's turn. Combat Grab has the Press trait, so its failure condition only kicks in if the Fighter's current Multiple Attack Penalty is -4 or greater (so their second or third attack), meaning the Fighter will have at most one action left to take advantage of the flat-footed target (and at -8 or -10 for an attack, so good luck). Unless other party members have the ability to act before the end of the Fighter's turn, they will gain no benefit from the failure result.
The failure result only makes the target flat-footed until the end of the Fighter's turn. Combat Grab has the Press trait, so its failure condition only kicks in if the Fighter's current Multiple Attack Penalty is -4 or greater (so their second or third attack), meaning the Fighter will have at most one action left to take advantage of the flat-footed target (and at -8 or -10 for an attack, so good luck). Unless other party members have the ability to act before the end of the Fighter's turn, they will gain no benefit from the failure result.
No? The failure result means that the target is flat-footed until the start of the fighter's next turn. The Rogue can take advantage of the condition whether or not the Fighter hits, the question is if it carries over to the Fighter's next round or not.
The failure result only makes the target flat-footed until the end of the Fighter's turn. Combat Grab has the Press trait, so its failure condition only kicks in if the Fighter's current Multiple Attack Penalty is -4 or greater (so their second or third attack), meaning the Fighter will have at most one action left to take advantage of the flat-footed target (and at -8 or -10 for an attack, so good luck). Unless other party members have the ability to act before the end of the Fighter's turn, they will gain no benefit from the failure result.No? The failure result means that the target is flat-footed until the start of the fighter's next turn. The Rogue can take advantage of the condition whether or not the Fighter hits, the question is if it carries over to the Fighter's next round or not.
Oops, you're right, I misread it. That is more useful than I thought, although still only requires a step to end