Trompe l'oeil & Troops

[Waldham]

Hello,

“Trompe l’oeil” is an inherited template that can be added to any corporeal creature that has an Intelligence score (referred to hereafter as the base creature).

Troop Subtype: A troop is a collection of creatures that acts as a single creature, similar to a swarm, but typically as part of a military unit. A troop has the characteristics of its type, except as noted here. A troop has a single pool of Hit Dice and hit points, a single initiative modifier, a single speed, and a single Armor Class. A troop attempts saving throws as a single creature.

A single troop occupies a 20-foot-by-20-foot square, equal in size to a Gargantuan creature, though the actual size category of the troop is the same as that of the component creatures.

Is it possible to add the trompe l'oeil template on a troop ?

[merpius]

Seems like you could.

IT also makes sense from an RP perspective; it is totally possible to paint a picture of a military unit...

[Waldham]

Hello, is it possible to create a troop with less Hit Dice.

For example, 4 HD. If yes, how ?

[avr]

You'd have to make such a troop up from scratch as a new monster. Troops notably lack any rules you could use to modify them this way.

[Valandil Ancalime]

IMO, no.

Troop wrote:

A troop is immune to any spell or effect that targets a specific number of creatures (including single-target spells such as disintegrate and multiple-target spells such as haste), though it is affected by spells or effects that target an area or a nonspecific number of creatures (such as fireball).

Trompe l'Oeil is a single target effect.

If you wanted to Trompe l'Oeil all the members of a troop, then their constructs could make a Trompe l'Oeil Troop.

[Waldham]

Trompe l œil is a mean to create a construct créature similar to an existing créature, Valandil.

[Diego Rossi]

Waldham wrote:

Trompe l œil is a mean to create a construct créature similar to an existing créature, Valandil.

AoN wrote:

A troop is a collection of creatures that acts as a single creature,

AoN wrote:

“Trompe l’oeil” is an inherited template that can be added to any corporeal creature

A creature (singular) isn't a collection of creatures (plural).

[Waldham]

So I didn't make a trompe l'oeil with a worm that walks ?

Neither with a swarm ?

Granule construct is as a swarm, no ?

[Coidzor]

Valandil Ancalime wrote:

Trompe l'Oeil is a single target effect.

Are you basing that on anything in the construct creation rules or the specifics of the Trompe l'Oeil template?

[Carrauntoohil]

Waldham wrote:

So I didn't make a trompe l'oeil with a worm that walks ?

Neither with a swarm ?

Granule construct is as a swarm, no ?

Worm that Walks is treated as a creature:

Quote:

Size: Although the worms that make up the worm that walks’s body are Fine creatures, the worm that walks is treated as a creature the same size as the base creature.

There is no such rule for swarms or granule constructs (I think, they are a bit niche), so a swarm cannot have a single-creature template applied.

[Carrauntoohil]

Coidzor wrote:

Are you basing that on anything in the construct creation rules or the specifics of the Trompe l'Oeil template?

I think Diego covered that, unless you have evidence to the contrary.

[Themetricsystem]

I am going to be honest, you're asking about a Template that is the cream of the crop in terms of munchkin nonsense and cheese with rules that can only EVER be adjudicated by the GM of the game you're running. If the GM is allowing the template in the first place then it tells me the game isn't "serious" enough to warrant any type of "balance" discussion, the Template clearly wasn't well thought out in the first place, quibbling over the difference between one creature and how you treat a troop is pointless semantics.

Trying to split hairs on if you can use it to make a troop are kind of pointless because of how broken the template is in the first place, like... why would you bother doing this when you have infinite wishes, gold, and immortality? That's like splitting hairs between arguing if it's better to destroy the planet and all life by way of a global nuclear bombardment or from the fallout that's caused by said event.

[Coidzor]

Carrauntoohil wrote:

Coidzor wrote:

Are you basing that on anything in the construct creation rules or the specifics of the Trompe l'Oeil template?

I think Diego covered that, unless you have evidence to the contrary.

No, Diego just said that you can't make a trompe l'oeil of more than one creature at a time.

Saying something is specifically a single target effect involves game terms above and beyond that, which is why my interest was piqued in the first place.

As far as I was aware before today, creating a construct was not an effect at all in game terms.

[Artofregicide]

As the GM? Sure.

As a player? Get lost.