So I just took a peek at the new Ganzi race in Planar Adventures, and aside from being thematically cool as all get-out, I noticed one of their Oddities:
Weaponplay (Ex): Ganzis with lineages that link to the Valkyries manifest their heritage in their skill in combat. Such Ganzies are always proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and they can qualify for feats normally available only to fighters (such as Weapon Specialization) even if they don't have any fighter class levels.
Are there any concepts, Prestige Classes, etc. that get easier with this? Someone else already mentioned using Weaponplay to get into Eldritch Knight, but I'm wondering if there are any other things that take advantage of this racial feature. Specifically, if there are Fighter feats worth taking for non-fighter classes, or other archetypes/prestige classes that a Ganzi could finagle with less effort than another race.
Oof. And I thought aasimar were too much for a PC race.
Oof. And I thought aasimar were too much for a PC race.
The only saving grace is, IMO, the lack of flexibility in stats (+2 Con/Cha, -2 Int), and the fact that they forgo the other options on the list if they pick up Weaponplay, which means no fun SLA, Prehensile tail, 1/day reroll, etc.
I've always thought Tieflings were even a little stronger than Aasimars, since you could theoretically get a bite or claws, a tail, natural armor, darkvision, AND some skill bonuses, in addition to a variety of stat bonus/penalty arrays to suit your concept.
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Sure, you could get that as one of the variant ganzi oddities, and it's super powerful. But why would you ever take anything else when you've got the protean-touched prehensile tail option? :D
I think its more exciting for non-fighter melee builds than anything else. Barbarians with weapon specialization. Technically casters and kenitesisits could get (greater) weapon spec. with rays, but it might be a waste of a feat.
Oracles benefit considerably. It opens up the weapon selection for all of the mysteries that don't do that as a power.
But mainly it means Eldritch Knight without dropping a spell level to qualify.
I had a similar thought. I also think it's great for 6-level casters that want to mix it up in melee. I was fiddling with a Mesmerist that could use a real weapon, for example, or my personal favorite so far, being able to access Pin Down as a non-fighter. Bodyguard + Pin Down seems like a fun synergy to play with on a support Bard or something like that.
Rogues might well appreciate a better weapon selection, even if they have no interest in pursuing weapon spec.
There's some feats with spellbreaker as a prereq which might be of interest in the late game to full BAB non-fighters.
I notice Weaponplay doesn't change the "fighter Nth" requirement to "character level Nth," it just drops it altogether. So a Ganzi of any class can take Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, and Greater Weapon Specialization as soon as it has the feat slots available. Nice!
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I notice Weaponplay doesn't change the "fighter Nth" requirement to "character level Nth," it just drops it altogether. So a Ganzi of any class can take Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, and Greater Weapon Specialization as soon as it has the feat slots available. Nice!
I am pretty sure this is not how it is intended to work.
I notice Weaponplay doesn't change the "fighter Nth" requirement to "character level Nth," it just drops it altogether. So a Ganzi of any class can take Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, and Greater Weapon Specialization as soon as it has the feat slots available. Nice!I am pretty sure this is not how it is intended to work.
I’m inclined to agree with you. I think you still have to have BAB +1 for Focus, and then be 4th/8th/12th for the others.
Otherwise you end up with Disruptive/Spellbreaker at level 3, when casting defensively is still really hard sometimes, and that seems ridiculous.
Was just considering using the proficiencies on a Brawler, and picking up Weapon Adept (Versatile Design) to make any martial weapon count as a Close Weapon. Seems good for Outslug Style.
I notice Weaponplay doesn't change the "fighter Nth" requirement to "character level Nth," it just drops it altogether. So a Ganzi of any class can take Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, Greater Weapon Focus, and Greater Weapon Specialization as soon as it has the feat slots available. Nice!I am pretty sure this is not how it is intended to work.I’m inclined to agree with you. I think you still have to have BAB +1 for Focus, and then be 4th/8th/12th for the others.
Otherwise you end up with Disruptive/Spellbreaker at level 3, when casting defensively is still really hard sometimes, and that seems ridiculous.
You certainly need BAB +1 for Weapon Focus, yes. Beyond that, I agree that the writer was not aiming to produce this effect, yet it's clearly implicit in what they wrote and needs to be house-ruled to achieve sanity.
Was just considering using the proficiencies on a Brawler, and picking up Weapon Adept (Versatile Design) to make any martial weapon count as a Close Weapon. Seems good for Outslug Style.
With Weapon Adept (Versatile Design), you're already proficient with every single Versatile Design (Close) weapon due to the unique Brawler proficiencies. The feat is only needed for exotic weapons, though, you're proficient with all simple and martial weapons with Versatile Design (Close) anyway.
Was just considering using the proficiencies on a Brawler, and picking up Weapon Adept (Versatile Design) to make any martial weapon count as a Close Weapon. Seems good for Outslug Style.With Weapon Adept (Versatile Design), you're already proficient with every single Versatile Design (Close) weapon due to the unique Brawler proficiencies. The feat is only needed for exotic weapons, though, you're proficient with all simple and martial weapons with Versatile Design (Close) anyway.
That's not the way I read it. It's my understanding that Brawler is proficient with the weapons in the close weapon group, plus handaxe and a couple of others.
Normally, a weapon modification increases the 'difficulty' of the weapon by one step (simple -> martial -> exotic). So for instance, a glaive with Versatile Design (close) is not one of the weapons the Brawler is normally proficient with, because they are not proficient with Glaives. Without Weapon Adept, such a glaive would be treated as an exotic weapon, but with Weapon Adept (Versatile Design), would instead remain martial, in addition to counting as a Close weapon for the purpose of Brawler's Flurry, etc.
Ganzi would then grant proficiency with it as a martial weapon, without the Brawler having to pick up martial weapon proficiency via feat or Fighter dip.
There you have it. Your Versatile Design Glaive™ is an exotic weapon in the close and polearm weapon groups. A Brawler is proficient with exotic weapons in the close weapon group.
Weapon Adept is needed for exotic weapons only because you can't wield modified exotic weapons, period. Funny enough, you're still proficient with it.
Does this mean that your levels in all classes you have levels in count as fighter levels for the sake of feats? Does this mean with Martial Focus you could get Advanced Weapon Training as a feat and utilize level dependent effects?
Martial Focus doesn't require Fighter levels, so it's unaffected.
Advanced Weapon Training is not one of the things that Martial Focus covers in its clause about counting as Fighter Weapon Training, so it looks like it is also unaffected.
If Martial Focus counted as Fighter Weapon Training for the purpose of Advanced Weapon Training, there would be so many happy Brawlers out there, but alas, it is not to be.
I love the idea of playing a Ganzi character with Penetrating Strike and Greater Penetrating Strike at 3rd level, or some similar combo of feats normally restricted to very high level fighters.
Armor/Shield Material Expertise and Armor/Sheild Material Mastery from the Armor Master's Handbook are kind of interesting I think, provided you can get special materials at low levels. Tower Shield Specialist also has a lot of possibility.
Also, there's this:
The relevant text differs from my original turnover, so I don't have much input to offer here. Allowing ganzi to ignore other prerequisites certainly wouldn't have been my intention (and I doubt it was the intention of the developer); however, I'm afraid I don't have any insight into the subject.
I recommend keeping an eye on PFS Campaign Clarifications to see how they handle it, if at all. ^_^