Permanent symbol spell question

[Ectar]

I'm running an adventure wherein the PCs chose to get themselves stuck in a teleport trap.
I expect them to be stuck in there for some time.
I was thinking of putting a permanent symbol in there with them, probably pain, weakness, or sleep.

Since they're permanent, as long as they remain in the area they'll have to repeat their fort saves every 10 minutes per caster level, right?
In reading through Symbol and Permanency spell descriptions, I didn't see any "Once a creature saves they're immune for 24 hours" or any similar language.

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

A symbol of weakness can only affect any given creature once. I don't think being permanent would change that.

AFAICT a permanent symbol of sleep or pain simply remains active until actively disabled (causing a 10 min reset), rather than shutting off after 10 min / caster level. So a permanent symbol of sleep is not going to do what you want, since it puts people to sleep for a finite time.

OTOH a permanent symbol of pain will also remain active, but its effects last until an hour after the creature gets away from it. So in a confined space the pain will last forever if they fail their initial Fort save and can't disable it.

Pretty sure there's no way to make it so they have to repeat their saves every 10 min / caster level; for one thing it'd be really weird if a higher-level caster's symbol zotted you less frequently.... If the PCs disable the symbol they'll have to save again in a flat 10 min when it comes back on (assuming their mere presence triggers it).

[Ectar]

So a permanent symbol that is triggered by creatures being in a room will just stay activated while the room is occupied? Okay.

What about if the room is left vacant for 24 hours and reentered?
Does a symbol spell reset, does it continue to be active forever (or until dispelled), or what?

[Fuzzy-Wuzzy]

It continues to be active forever---requiring each creature who (re)enters the area to make a new save---unless it has some other finishing condition (i.e. a symbol of death deactivates after affecting 150 HP of creatures).

Or so I read it. Anyone else want to weigh in?

[Meirril]

Its ambigious. I'd say decide when the spell is cast. It would be most effective if it reset when the space was evacuated for 10 minutes.

Of course dispelling it temporarily would reset it as well.

[Azothath]

Symbol of Sleep 5th {see Symbol of Death}, sleep effect (3d6+10)min affecting up to 10 HD creatures with no HP limit within 10*CL min, re-entrant but does not stack(sleeping creatures not affected by sleep effects).

Symbol of Pain 5th {see Symbol of Death} -4 penalty within AoE and for 1hr after leaving AoE with no HP limit, re-entrant but does not stack(-4 penalty not -8 after re-entry, re-entry just extends duration on a failed save).

Symbol of Weakness 7th, 60ft radius 3d6 STR dmg, no HP limit, active 10 min, a creature can only be affected by this symbol once.

Symbol of Death 8th, 60ft radius death effect affecting up to 150 cumulative HPs within 10*CL min, re-entrant (creature leaves and comes back into AoE may have to make another save), preset trigger condition and password or attuned creatures. Note that a 50HP creature could be affected 3 times if it left and re-entered the AoE.

Permanenty 5th. Simply means symbols can be re-activated the round after activation time expires. As it is not a new source or spell creatures previously attempted to be affected retain their "only affected once" if applicable.
Permanency is a bit wishy washy on spell internal descriptions. Does active duration mean anything? Symbols are permanent for duration and extending activation to permanent WITHOUT affecting the HP or HD accumulation would seem pointless. So there will be some GM interpretation. For example Symbol of Death may fill its HP total on the first round of activation but may not re-activate for 150min (the minimum for 8th level) OR until its HP total is met. After reactivation creatures in the AoE have to trigger it again and that may prove tricky.

[zza ni]

one idea you might want to try. as symbols can be activated by passing a portal\passageway. make the teleport trap loop through 2 or more teleport portals, each with a symbol of it's own this way every time they get into a new portal they get zapped again (this also depend on symbol type, you need one that can effect anyone who trigger it again and again). might also work with glyphs of warding if they are permanent(and those things can have a larger range of spells in them), not sure need further reading.

[Ectar]

Okay. General consensus is that the permanent symbol will remain active for as long as someone is within their area (assuming that that's the triggering condition). It's unlikely the PCs will leave and reenter the area. That question was just for my own knowledge.
Thanks forum users!

[Azothath]

comments - I consider symbols a lazy GM's tool. They are way overpriced and there are ways to relocate the symbol making them excellent treasure, permanent ones even more so...

I'd rather use a trap that resets based on a spell such as; burning hands, memory lapse, break(random target), summoning air elemental to attack, euphoric cloud, glitterdust, stone call, compulsive liar, daze monster, hideous laughter, unnatural lust, gust of wind into walls for falling damage while falling, sonic scream, telekinetic volley on unattended objects to hit creatures in the AoE... it could be moved but the value is lower (those are all first and second level spells) and the time to do so is higher.