Weapon Fusions for Unarmed Strike?


Rules Questions


I feel like I already know the answer is no. When I was looking at weapons I thought Unarmed Strikes were level 0. Weapon Fusions only work on weapons of level higher than the fusion.

However, then I was looking at Dueling Swords and saw Unarmed is level "-"... It doesn't have one. So can you apply weapon fusions or probably more realistically, fusion seals to them?


No.


I got a little more information on this one that makes me question it further. The following is direct from the CRB.

Weapon Fusions: Item Level wrote:
Each weapon fusion has an item level, and a fusion can’t be placed on a weapon that has a lower level than the fusion’s item level. Once it is attached to a weapon, a weapon fusion uses the weapon’s item level for any of the weapon fusion’s level-based effects.
Weapon Fusions: Fusion Seals wrote:

It is also possible to place a weapon fusion into a physical object, called a fusion seal, which can then be affixed to a specific weapon and even moved among different weapons. A fusion seal affects only weapons of a given level or less, as noted in parentheses after the name of the fusion seal. For example, a holy fusion seal that could be applied to any weapon of 10th level or lower would be written holy fusion seal (10th). Any decisions that must be made when a fusion is added to a weapon are made when a fusion seal is created, and they can’t be changed.

A fusion seal’s cost is based on the highest-level weapon the fusion seal can affect, and it is equal to 110% of the price of a weapon fusion for a weapon of that level. Removing a fusion seal and transferring it to a new weapon takes only 1 minute and does not require any specific skill training, but the fusion doesn’t function until the seal has been in place on a weapon for 24 hours. A fusion seal can’t be added to a weapon if doing so would cause the weapon’s total level of fusions (including the level of the fusion seal) to exceed its item level or if the weapon is not a legitimate choice for the fusion within the fusion seal. Grenades, ammunition, and other consumable items can benefit from fusion seals, but the fusion seal is destroyed when the item is used.

So to my understanding, a fusion seal has a level, and a fusion has a level, so the thing you stick the seal to needs to be between those two levels. A club is explicitly 0 so thus will always be below the minimum 1, but - is essentially value missing (as Unarmed is not something you by, thus is doesn't need an availability rating, everyone has it).

What this means is... Unhelpful. Much like the shuriken being ammunition there's nothing for how weapon fusions interact with them, there's nothing specific that I can find for unarmed being without level for fusions. Blank either means 0 (and continues Paizo's oppression of the Unarmed Strike), or it means N/A and would just require a seal to have the item level required for the cost, but could be put around your wrist or whatever to apply the seal to unarmed.


No weapon, no weapon fusion.


Hopefully the Starfinder Armory book will address this.


Dark Midian wrote:
Hopefully the Starfinder Armory book will address this.

As much as I hope so, the problem with addressing it in Armory would be then it's not in the CRB, which means you would now need to have Armory to have all of the rules. Paizo and Wizards have both generally tried to have a pretty good policy on that where you only need to main book to play the game.

Even when you look at the Pathfinder books that offered variant rules, they were labeled as such. Nothing was ever released to address problems in the source book. EDIT: Other than re-printings and Errata.


Isaac Zephyr wrote:
Dark Midian wrote:
Hopefully the Starfinder Armory book will address this.

As much as I hope so, the problem with addressing it in Armory would be then it's not in the CRB, which means you would now need to have Armory to have all of the rules. Paizo and Wizards have both generally tried to have a pretty good policy on that where you only need to main book to play the game.

Even when you look at the Pathfinder books that offered variant rules, they were labeled as such. Nothing was ever released to address problems in the source book. EDIT: Other than re-printings and Errata.

Playing Pathfinder without the APG is pretty limited too.


Also, bluntly, the expectations that "everything would be in the CRB" are not reasonable even on the face. A lack of rule covering weapon fusions on unarmed attacks is not a crippling flaw, because it is absolutely unnecessary for playing the game. You don't *need* to be able to stick a fusion on your fist in order for Starfinder to function.

And frankly, they could well answer "No, you can't put fusions on unarmed attacks. This is not a bug, this is the rules functioning as intended. If you want to enhance your unarmed attacks, get an item that works specifically for that purpose. If you want to punch things, get a gauntlet weapon."


Metaphysician wrote:

Also, bluntly, the expectations that "everything would be in the CRB" are not reasonable even on the face. A lack of rule covering weapon fusions on unarmed attacks is not a crippling flaw, because it is absolutely unnecessary for playing the game. You don't *need* to be able to stick a fusion on your fist in order for Starfinder to function.

And frankly, they could well answer "No, you can't put fusions on unarmed attacks. This is not a bug, this is the rules functioning as intended. If you want to enhance your unarmed attacks, get an item that works specifically for that purpose. If you want to punch things, get a gauntlet weapon."

On the first part, I agree. I was using it as a general term that if they clarify a rule in a future book it becomes a necessary resource. If they adjusted Operative's Edge for balance in another book, people who only had the CRB would be unhappy. For example.

And they could answer that, but there is currently no item for that purpose (and in PF those items were incredibly limiting or cost twice as much, and used up slots which in SF are a lot more precious. Paizo's oppression of the Unarmed Strike as I put it). And I want to kick things, which I did take the function for with Improved Unarmed Strike. Unfortunately a battleglove is very different.


Then ask your GM to let you purchase or make modified battlegloves called battleboots, with the same stats but allowing the benefit to kicks.


Metaphysician wrote:
Then ask your GM to let you purchase or make modified battlegloves called battleboots, with the same stats but allowing the benefit to kicks.

A: Battleglove is singular, it's not a pair, so you weild one in one hand, like any other weapon.

B: Battleboots would entirely negate the purpose (one of them anyway) of Improved Unarmed Strike as it would allow you to tri-weild (or quint-weild for four-armed races) and attack while your hands are otherwise occupied.

C: If I were to ask for custom content anyway, why not just ask the more sensible using fusions for Unarmed rather than making a new rule-bypassing weapon? Improved Unarmed already increases damage dice at set levels, you could easily consider those the item level required for the fusion seal, as well as their maximum cap.

D: Kicking was an example, and not the literal point I was attempting to get across. Battlegloves are better in many cases: higher damage dice, no need for a feat to AoO, no archaic quality for -5 damage. However, wearing a battleglove to a party wouldn't be appropriate, and in other cases are powered and hack-able.

The question I am posing is due to a lack of information on how level "-" interacts on something that does have progressive tiering at levels 4, 8, 12, 15 and 20. Especially as it is the only instance in the CRB. The same as what if I want to put a weapon fusion on shuriken. They're the only ammunition-type weapon and are sold in packs of 10. Do I fuse all 10? Do they count as consumable like a grenade does? It's an only one instance with nothing on how it works or interacts.


I’m going to throw my 2 cents in. It seems to me that it doesn’t matter what kind of symbol is in the weapon’s level section. It could be -, blank, a picture of an apple, or my cat’s name. If it isn’t a number describing the level, then you can’t put a fusion on there.

I don’t like it either, it’s almost like they got through the weapons section and said ‘You know what, this section is entirely too consistent. Can we add some curveballs?’ But until they FAQ an item level of ‘-‘, I’m going to say it doesn’t meet the criteria of a thing that can be fused.

Shuriken… Shuriken are weird. They’re not actually listed as ammunition. The table they’re in calls them one handed weapons in the special category, with an item level of 1 and the thrown property.

So, I guess treat them like any other weapon with the thrown property? Unless SF has a rule I didn’t find about shuriken being destroyed or not recoverable. In that case, I’d say treat them as consumables.

To that, you might say ‘But that makes them really horrible and not worth using. Almost like Paizo just put them in there as filler or just because they were in PF!’
And, if you were to say that, it seems like you’d be correct.

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