Hi, I've been a GM in Pathfinder for about a year now, with a few campaigns on my trackrecord and it has been going well so far.
But now I have gotten a new circle of players as my old ones have grown a little tired of Pathfinder.
And my new players(we have not started yet, I'm building things and they are prepping chars) are excited as they have had one GM before in a D&D campaign that did not go well. That GM was too hardass on the rules and didn't let the players do anything they wanted. He orchestrated the whole thing.
Which gets really boring of course.
But now, everything is going smoothly except for this one thing. There is one players idea which is kinda hard to digest or to even make possible. She is the girlfriend of one of the other players who is a really good friend too, and she has expressed that she doesn't even wanna play if she doesn't get to do this.
Her idea is this; that she wants to play a goat. With a dwarven puppet on its back which is the goats cover. I've managed to talk her into a live dwarf as that is kinda easier because puppets I've got no experience with. The problem is, she doesn't wanna be a "specially engineered" goat that can talk. She wants to be a regular goat, that only talks to her boyfriends char who is a druid, but he cant talk to goats before lvl 5, and only once a day....
Which leaves us with a goat char who does nothing for the group. And then we have the problems with the dwarf. Does he leave the goat anytime? She has not played much rpg before so the conscious thing to have to keep track of two different chars in different places will eventually come up.
How do I explain how difficult this will be without sounding like a negative hater? I really wants this to work as my friend really wants his girlfriend to be a part of this as then they have something to enjoy together. I do a little bit of homebrew but not something as immersive as this.
I have a few buddies that can help with making the chars in itself, I just need help with knowing how to explain this. I mean, am I being the difficult one here? Or is there something I'm missing?
I guess point out to her how she's going to be left out of most of the non-combat sections of the game? Though if her dwarf is actually a summoner, witch, carnivalist rogue or something with the goat as the eidolon or familiar that's less true.
Just let her do it. I like the idea of the fake dwarf better than the real one. Let it be fun. Have all NPC's wonder, verbally or non-verbally, about the Druid who is apparently in love with this goat that only he can talk to. "Why is there a fake dwarf on your Druid's goat?" Goats have a starting intelligence of 2, let her put a +2 starting stat into Intelligence to get it past 3 so that she can understand common. As for difficulty, it shouldn't be difficult at all. Try to be accommodating. The goat may surprise you.
Of course, with only 5 HP, the first time this goat gets hit, she dies. Problem solved.
Edit: Also, lets be real. This is just a way for the girlfriend to hang out without having to roleplay.
She'd just be a co-DM who controls one single NPC. I can't seen the harm in that myself, but you have to judge how the other players respond to it. If this would be perceived as favouritism, you'll have to call the whole thing off.
Either handwave all the mechanical details and just give her what she wants, or nix the whole deal. I can't see any middle ground being viable.
I think you could make it work without too much issue using an Eldritch Guardian Dwarven Fighter with the Mauler archetype Goat Familiar. Backstory could be that the dwarf is really dumb or a simpleton (model off of hodor) and only care about keeping his favourite goat alive. The goat has incidentally fallen in love with a local druid and believes the dwarf to be her thrall/man servant.
The fighter archetype lets you have an intelligent familiar who can siphon off feats from it's 'master' and she can RP the goat as the main master (maybe a stuck up cantankerous goat - except to the druid). The familiar/class archetypes allows the familiar to be somewhat effective in combat, but is indeed sub optimal. Put 1 skill point into linguistics for the goat and learn common so she can understand others, just not speak to them. Just make sure the dwarf starts by taking Toughness as a alternate racial trait and take the mauler's endurance feat to bump the goat's hp. If you really don't want the dwarf to do much other than take blows for the goat or help it out than consider pumping CON>DEX>CHA.
With a CHA of at least 13 you can grab evolved familiar and give the goat wings, reach, or other ridiculous things. Grab mounted combat so the dwarf can try to remove one attack a round from the goat. Furthermore, by pumping CON the goat will get more hp. I'd even consider a 2 level dip into Cavalier and hand wave the animal companion as being the goat so the dwarf can ride in heavy armor with no ACP, take a decent order (e.g., order of the cockatrice to get standard action dazzling display in 30ft) so the dwarf actions in combat are standardized. Cavalier also nets you a free teamwork feat (which if it is a combat feat will go to your goat as well from the fighter archetype).
The dwarf could take the traits Adopted(Helpful) and Kin Guardian to get a bump aid another from +2 to +4 or +6 on Aid Another attempts, grab combat reflexes and use AoOs to bump the goat's AC.
You probably want to stay in full BAB classes since the goat's BAB is equivalent to the PCs and there won't be a lot of options to improve the goat's attack bonus (AoMF?).
Honestly you could easily build a goat mauler familiar and be much better off with a halfling. First the DEX/CHA bonus is better for he above. Second there is a racial trait to get a +2 to STR/DEX/CON of your familiar (i.e., goat). It also opens up a complete helpful halfing build with bodyguard/cautious fighter/blundering defense in addition to the crane style feat chain and flagbearer. All the halfling does is improve attack/AC every round and lets the goat try to take one off chomps.
Any way you slice it, the build will take a few levels to come together and may still be relatively sub optimal.
Otherwise consider:
Maybe a kitsune who was polymorphed into a goat and is on a mission to reclaim his ability to shapeshift back into a kitsune/human/fox? Then just apply a spell effect on that chassis?
Summoner (definitely not great with the CHA dump)
Well, if you want this to work...a goat is a CR 1/3 just like most player races.
Stats for an average goat: Str 12, Dex 13, Con 12, Int 2, Wis 11, Cha 5
But we're creating an exceptional goat...so we advance it. Since goat is close to a PC race in CR I'd suggest adding a class to the goat instead of trying to figure out what "Racial Hit Dice" would look like. Creatures with class levels receive +4, +4, +2, +2, +0, and –2 adjustments to their ability scores. Require her to have a minimum of 4 intelligence as a PC goat.
I'd offer a list of possible classes. Concentrate on ones that don't require book learning. Or hands. I'd recommend Fighter, Sorcerer, Oracle, Barbarian, Kineticist, and Psychic. Any of these could work for a creature that doesn't have a language (that also means it can't use telepathy unless it sinks a skill point into Linguistics to pick up at least 1 language. And if the goat does it can understand but doesn't posses the physical ability to speak. Actually require she spends at least 1 point on linguistics to understand common!)
For equipment...listen to any reasonable suggestion. Goats don't have fingers so rings might be difficult. But they have horns and maybe they can have earrings? Do not let the goat start with "equipment". It comes into the game with no gear other than the dummy she wanted. Since it isn't magical, it just sits on her back.
Later on she'll qualify to be Awakened by the druid. Before that require Speak with Animals to really communicate with her (or telepathy). Animal Empathy will be somewhat effective, but it should require rounds to communicate a general message.
One more thing. Be careful with her feats. Disallow any feat that you really would need hands to use. Or communication skills. I would allow her to take monster feats, because not humanoid! Just anything you can reasonably expect a goat to maybe do. You might even let the goat learn Pounce. Actually, put Pounce in a chain of feats. Its powerful but why not?
There are a few advantages to being a goat. For one, Charm Person can't work. Hold Person also doesn't work, for obvious reasons. It isn't all bad being a goat. Actually being a goat Kinetisist doesn't sound all that bad...and goat Bezerker is kind of traditional?
Thanks a lot for the answers! My outlook at this idea was very negative because I have been influenced by my other friends who...are really sticking to the rules when they can and dont use a lot of loophiles and such x)
Now I see that I can make this work...
Baleful Polymorph but she passed the will save!
So I posted my polymorph answer before seeing she wants to be a regular goat.
Better idea: maybe let her and her BF play a co-character, with her controlling the Animal Companion of his druid. Hire a hireling to be the dwarf cover (a halfling with undersize mount might be better).
Use the Skittergoat stats: Skittergoat.
Ask yourself this: If a new guy came to your game (like, say, me) and made that demand, would you give in? If the answer is no, then DON'T make an exception. If you would say yes...Then disregard this post and go for it.
How will a new player choosing to play a goat(that only speaks to one other Player to the exclusion of everyone else) effect the rest of your players at the table?
...this sounds a lot like a @%^& test and she's trying to see if you/her boyfriend are going to cave to her unreasonable "do this or else" demand by trying to get you to let her play the most ridiculous concept she could think of. If you go through all the hoops needed to make it possible, she is going to keep trying to push/break every rule the entire campaign until you tell her "No." in which case she'll have the excuse she's looking for to not have to play. I'd suggest not doing that.
If you still intend on going through with this, perhaps do the Hodor Concept, I would run that character as an NPC. Maybe she'll get into the game and want to be more a part of it, which is when you can let her make a new character. If she then refuses, it's most likely because she really didn't want to play and she just needs to have a reason to not play. In that case, perhaps the goat should get eaten by a dragon.
I know there is a book out there, might not be paizo.... but it has rules for playing animal characters. "The Noble Wild"
The Noble Wild
A 2008 ENnie Award Nominee!
This exciting book introduces comprehensive rules for playing intelligent animals in a wide variety of game settings and situations. It will be popular with everyone from groups that want to try all-animal or mixed animal/humanoid parties, to players who want to expand the options for their animal companions and familiars, to game masters who are looking for interesting and unexpected foes to run against their players.
Features of this "Animal Player's Handbook" include:
Statistics for more than 60 playable species of noble animal;
Modifications and additions to existing classes, skills, and feats appropriate to animal characters;
A new basic character class, the Greater Familiar;
Eight new Prestige Classes, including the Man-Eater and War Mount;
Special rules for the use of magic by animal characters;
Information on running several different sorts of campaigns, along with guidelines for Modern scenarios;
Deeds, magical abilities acquired by performing heroic actions;
Rules for several new types of magical treasures, including Fetishes, Jujus, and Spellthralls;
Hundreds of illustrations;
A 24-page set of Noble Animal Spell Lists
And much more!
Check out all the Noble Wild Products:
The Noble Wild Character Sheets
The Noble Wild Bonus Deed Tree: ‘Claws of the Sirocco'
Noble Animal Spell Lists
'The Noble Wild' Holiday Bonus Pack
Updated Animal Familiars
It is 3rd party stuff, but does have rules for playing animal characters. maybe it helps, maybe it doesn't
Personally, as a player, I would enjoy playing with such a character, mostly because the jokes write themselves "what's that, Billy, you want us to use you as bait to get into the goblin barbecue? Okay." And taking full advantage of the fact that she couldn't respond
I'll just have to explain to her the circumstances surroudning the char whe nwe make it. Because my biggest concern right now is giving her too much advantage in comparison to the other players. I don't want her to overshadow them because I try to avoid hitting her during encounters and such...
I guess I should just roll with it and see what happens as I try to be fair...
As long as you start off reasonable, the goat won't ever become "overpowered". It can be competitive, but the starting stats are just miserable. Also the goat is totally handicapped when it comes to non-combat. No hands, can't talk, most people dismiss it because its a goat! You should have people offer to buy the goat quite often. Even after the goat is famous!
Have the goat be popular with children. Not all kids though, some are afraid of goats. Other animals should have a variety of reactions, though I'd give her +10 charisma with other goats and sheep.
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