I've re-read the proficiency blog a couple of times now, and with the new paladin thread talking about how the Paladin will be the character type getting legendary proficiency in Armor, I would almost like a proficiency blog 2 to talk about what it means for "unlocks" to be gated behind proficiency.
What is a Paladin going to be able to do with their armor and (probably more problematic to me) shield that a fighter can't? (this question arises from an intense love of the Hellknight as a Golarion-based character concept that currently seems impossible).
Will the Barbarian's Legendary Fortitude proficiency be anywhere near on par power-wise to legendary proficiency in spells, weapons or armor?
If legendary proficiency is gated behind class, is legendary proficiency going to be possible through multi-classing? (I am guessing the answer is a definite no, after all, if "anyone can grab legendary proficiency in anything," then why bother attaching proficiency to class?.)
Is Archetype going to modify access to proficiencies? I know they are supposed to be applicable to multiple classes now so it seems like they might, but my confusion might also stem from:
From what I have read, pretty much everything is proficiencies, but not all proficiencies will play by the same rules as far as exclusivity and access. Skill proficiencies are different from weapon and armor and spell proficiencies (in that there will probably be more leeway for grabbing higher access to them), and probably save proficiencies. This feels very confusing right now, but will probably make more sense when the rule book comes out and we can read more than a quick couple of paragraphs about it. But...proficiencies being similar but different, and 3 kinds of feats being similar but different, and spells, spell point-powers and rituals all being similar but different, is starting to sound less intuitively strait-forward than it was intended to be.
I think another part of my confusion is that it feels like the point of proficiencies is sometimes to act as a gate for more powerful powers and sometimes to act as a metric to denote aptitude (hence why there is a penalty for being untrained and a bonus for increased proficiency, which is incredibly necessary if everything is +level). I kind of think it is weird that attributes are capable of having a massive swing in how effective a character can do something (8-18 is already a +/- 5, achievable at first level), while actual training will take 17 levels to come anywhere close to matching it.
If it is the gating thing, is it the case that you instantly gain access to a lot of amazing new powers just by having the increased training? Or do you still need to select feats to do the incredible acts, and instead of old BAB restrictions, we now have proficiency restrictions?
I am curious about all of these things. I am not worried about most of them, or thinking the new system is in critical failure mode, but I do hope the shield gets moved into the weapon proficiency category.
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Per Mark Seifter only weapon, armor, and spell Proficiencies are really gated behind Class, with Skills and Saves available in other ways.
Also per Mark Seifter, Fighters can get Legendary Armor Proficiency (presumably with a Class Feat) it just doesn't come standard. And at least one other Class gets a Legendary defensive thing of some sort (people are assuming Monk, they're probably right).
The rest we just don't know.
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I was under the impression that any class could reach legendary proficiency in anything if they expend enough feats for it -- the difference is that certain classes can do so automatically when they reach certain levels.
This is not true. It's been made clear that for weapon, spell, and armor proficiencies, getting above Trained generally involves Class specific stuff.
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Per Mark Seifter only weapon, armor, and spell Proficiencies are really gated behind Class, with Skills and Saves available in other ways.
That is not exactly what I spoke to: it was people asking about getting access to expert proficiency rank in those things.
Mark, is there any chance you can speak to the question as to whether proficiency itself unlocks additional functionality (new stuff you can do) or if the cool stuff you can do with increased proficiency comes from feats?
Edit: Or if not, would you all consider releasing a follow up proficiency blog or do a live Q&A about the proficiency system to help address some confusion?
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Mark, is there any chance you can speak to the question as to whether proficiency itself unlocks additional functionality (new stuff you can do) or if the cool stuff you can do with increased proficiency comes from feats?
Edit: Or if not, would you all consider releasing a follow up proficiency blog or do a live Q&A about the proficiency system to help address some confusion?
It varies. Sometimes like evasion, the proficiency comes bundled with something extremely awesome, and other times, it's more that it unlocks new options (and buffs your previous options).
It sounds like Legendary Armor for a Fighter would be a great thing to have an Archetype or a Prestige Class for. Maybe the baseline Fighter wouldn't get it, but a Hellknight certainly should, or any other heavily armored organization.
It would work well if Presitge Classes went back to being special training you get form being a part of a group with secret/exclusive skills. Not that they were exclusively that for long...
It varies. Sometimes like evasion, the proficiency comes bundled with something extremely awesome, and other times, it's more that it unlocks new options (and buffs your previous options).Mark, is there any chance you can speak to the question as to whether proficiency itself unlocks additional functionality (new stuff you can do) or if the cool stuff you can do with increased proficiency comes from feats?
Edit: Or if not, would you all consider releasing a follow up proficiency blog or do a live Q&A about the proficiency system to help address some confusion?
I'd really like to see a blog specifically about high level content to give us examples of what exactly legendary proficiency grants you. Is being a Legendary Fighter as good as being a Wizard that casts 10th level spells?
If legendary proficiency is gated behind class, is legendary proficiency going to be possible through multi-classing? (I am guessing the answer is a definite no, after all, if "anyone can grab legendary proficiency in anything," then why bother attaching proficiency to class?.)Is Archetype going to modify access to proficiencies? I know they are supposed to be applicable to multiple classes now so it seems like they might, but my confusion might also stem from:
Maybe multiclassing works, but the max proficiency level is level locked?
That fulfills both premises.
Example, as a class feature Barb gain the ability to Legendary Fort (still have to upgrade it as a choice but max is increased), so if you multiclass but don't have at least 10 levels, you'll never reach it.
Or, Paladin gain ability to be Legendary armor at 11, so you must carefully manage how much muliclassing you do.