(Fire) Giants and Grease

[Balkoth]

Am I missing something here, or is a CR10 creature (Fire Giant) effectively unable to pass through a 10 foot hallway blocked by Grease even if the Grease is cast by a level 1 Wizard? Seems to be something like a -1 (Dex) - 7 (Half Plate) = -8 Acrobatics vs DC 10 to walk through the Grease -- sure, he gets a Reflex save if he gets a 6-10 on the Acrobatics, but a 5 or less results in the giant falling, period. Are they THAT helpless vs Grease?

[Oyabun_Kyuubi]

There are a lot of things that are low level that actually are quite useful at much higher levels more so than the higher level spells at times.

[Azothath]

there is this thing called jump, they could just step over it.

With a large greased area and a run it could become the slip-n-slide of fire giant delivery...

[thaX]

They can not step over it, the creature is going through a spell effect and needs to make the checks associated with it. It can, however, attempt to jump the area that the spell is in, but a failure means they land right in the area of grease.

[Adjoint]

Even while prone, you can move 5 feet as a move action. Assuming you fell prone upon entering the greased area, you can get to the other side in 1 round.

[CountofUndolpho]

'Failure means it can't move that round (and must then make a Reflex save or fall), while failure by 5 or more means it falls (see the Acrobatics skill for details)'
Any movement requires an acrobatics check.

[Adjoint]

CountofUndolpho wrote:

'Failure means it can't move that round (and must then make a Reflex save or fall), while failure by 5 or more means it falls (see the Acrobatics skill for details)'

Any movement requires an acrobatics check.

Context matters.

Core Rulebook wrote:

A creature can walk within or through the area of grease at half normal speed with a DC 10 Acrobatics check. Failure means it can’t move that round (and must then make a Reflex save or fall), while failure by 5 or more means it falls (see the Acrobatics skill for details).

I wouldn't call crawling when prone 'walking'. You can't fall if you're already prone.

[Claxon]

thaX wrote:

They can not step over it, the creature is going through a spell effect and needs to make the checks associated with it. It can, however, attempt to jump the area that the spell is in, but a failure means they land right in the area of grease.

I'm sorry, but saying that a gargantuan creature couldn't step over a 10ft by 10ft square is a little ridiculous to me.

Do medium creatures automatically set off trip wires because they can't step over them?

[Brolof]

Claxon wrote:

I'm sorry, but saying that a gargantuan creature couldn't step over a 10ft by 10ft square is a little ridiculous to me.

Do medium creatures automatically set off trip wires because they can't step over them?

It's not Gargantuan, it's Large.

[Claxon]

Right, but the implication I took away from his statement was that thaX doesn't think a creature can "step over" anything and that they have to use acrobatics to jump over it.

Perhaps I misunderstood.

You are however right, that I should have explained that I wasn't really referring to a Fire Giant, but the a generic situation of a gargantuan creature trying to step over a 10ft x 10ft area.

[Brolof]

Claxon wrote:

Right, but the implication I took away from his statement was that thaX doesn't think a creature can "step over" anything and that they have to use acrobatics to jump over it.

Perhaps I misunderstood.

You are however right, that I should have explained that I wasn't really referring to a Fire Giant, but the a generic situation of a gargantuan creature trying to step over a 10ft x 10ft area.

Consider the size of your average Fire Giant is maybe 15ft tall, (just pulling that out of no where, don't quote me), is it really tall enough to "step" over the grease?

[Claxon]

The average person's step length is about 32". Giant's are roughly 3 times as tall (so their stride length would be roughly 3 times as long?) which would be 96", which is 8'-0". But these are only rough approximations. And the 32" measurement is just you average step pace. If you really try to step as far as you can it's longer than 32". So would a giant be able to step 10'-0"? Probably.

I've long thought that larger size category creatures really ought to have longer steps than 5ft steps (an extra 5 ft for each size category) but this sort of thing really causes the game to breakdown and for make size increases even more powerful than they already were.

[Mallecks]

I think that it makes sense outside of combat.

However, combat movement is a hustle that isn't carefully stepping over grease puddles. They would have to take a purposeful action (acrobatics to move through spell / acrobatics to jump over spell)

[Claxon]

Mallecks wrote:

I think that it makes sense outside of combat.

However, combat movement is a hustle that isn't carefully stepping over grease puddles. They would have to take a purposeful action (acrobatics to move through spell / acrobatics to jump over spell)

I'd agree with you that it's an action that you have to think about a bit, and not as easy as a regular step, but not something that requires a check to perform. You're basically performing a lunging step. Provoke an AoO? Probably. But I don't think it makes sense to require a check to do.

[Azothath]

you guys are silly

some important data-

Grease spell. only 10*10ft flat area. DC 10 to running jump it for a medium creature. If they don't touch the greased area (by passing over it) they are not subject to the spell effect.

Fire Giant sz:Lg, Str=31 Dex=9, Spd=40ft(30 in armour). Arco -1(0), Climb +14, Percp +14. Fire giants are cautious and crafty tacticians on the battlefield. Half-plate gives them a -7 armor check (had to dig that up).

Acrobatics skill. (Running) Long jump with 10ft start DC is horizontal feet, or 10ft is DC 10 for medium creatures. Fire Giants with a Base 40 Spd get +4 to long jump, then -7 in half plate. The jump skill assumes you are jumping over a pit and does not take into account size. Jumping is part of your base movement so it's not a separate action. They will make at least their jump Check in feet, so 1-3 or at least 0 ft.

The other silly rule is that fallen bodies do not make an area difficult terrain, so as long as the guys that fall allow others to pass through their square they are not a hindrance. So fall away and squeeze into the end square(s).

With Percp +14 they are going to spot the Grease before running into it. As they are cautious and crafty they'll probably just throw a cloak or two over the greased area and then walk carefully through it (due to armor penalties). So at best it's just gonna slow them down. By my accounting Fire Giants have 1 skill point left.

In a dungeon crawl with 10 ft corridor they can easily climb the walls and traverse over the area. Climb DC is 20 (dungeon wall) with -10 to the DC for opposing walls so their +14 (to +7 with armor) is going to make that at 1/4 move (cost 40ft to move 10ft) or at +5DC to go at 1/2 move speed.

[thaX]

Indeed, they can easily "jump" over the grease, but to "walk" through it means they need to make the acrobatics check to move so they can "walk."

There is also no 5 foot stepping out of grease, as it isn't difficult terrain.

[Reverse]

Or the Giant could hurl a 120 foot range flaming rock over the top, instantly killing the Level 1 wizard. +10 to hit, 1d8+15+1d6 damage.

[blahpers]

This is almost as fun as a kaiju stepping on a create pit. : D

[Claxon]

blahpers wrote:

This is almost as fun as a kaiju stepping on a create pit. : D

Which is another similar issue that needs to be explicitly addressed.

Preferably on the side of "creatures of a larger size category than the area of the spell are unaffected by such terrain effects".

[thaX]

Is the creature's foot bigger than the effect?

[Azothath]

Advanced Gelatinous Cube with 6HD...