Wishlish Item: Improve Flanking / Gang Up / Swarm Rules


Prerelease Discussion


So flanking (barring oddities), as it stands now is a flat +2. It doesn't matter how many people are around, it is +2.

So lets think about that. If an entire town of commoners were to attack someone with an AC of around 32, that would still mean each of them would have a 5% chance of hitting. Because there are no offensive penalties to being flanked, this also means that the character (for this purpose, a level 9 fighter) can cut down all 8 of the attackers (60% of the time) (with great cleave) each round.

While this makes sense for a round or two, a mob of hundreds really should be able to take down a single person in not too much time. So how can we buff big groups of characters? I don't have a specific idea, but these are the things I can think of...

Flank bonus increases for each additional character (+2,+3,+4...+8). Only 2 "Flankers" must be trully opposing.

Penalty to attack bonus of someone being flanked?

Create a set of Mob/Stampede rules that work like Swarm rules for Small, Medium and Large creatures (I kinda like this idea... Goblin Stampede....)


Pathfinder PF Special Edition Subscriber

I agree there should be something to reflect the situations where a whole mass of enemies overwhelm the big hero (or not, although in most pop culture representations, they do). The PF1 way of doing this, combining flanking + aid another, never felt satisfactory.


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PF1 would represent this mob as the troop subtype. Better to have a bestiary entry for “mob” than make the flanking rules four times as complicated.


Luckily, changes to the flanking rules are easily implemented as House Rules.

For instance, you could say +2 per ally adjacent to the target. Its quick and easy to count up. If +2 isn't strong enough for what you're want to represent, then use +4, which is going to create a strong incentive for the target to get out of there and probably leads to a better 2 on 1, or 3 or 1, flavor of fight.

Or you could say +2 per ally who is not threatened by another opponent but is adjacent to the target. This kind of rule promotes forming lines or shield walls.


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QuidEst wrote:
PF1 would represent this mob as the troop subtype. Better to have a bestiary entry for “mob” than make the flanking rules four times as complicated.

This. There is a thread on the troop sub-type that can get you to what you want. Otherwise, many folks are not fond of the bounded accuracy philosophy around these parts.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2011 Top 32

Here I was thinking this thread might cover the rules for swarms, which could probably use a touch up.

All too often at level 1:
It's some kind of insect swarm!
Who actually bought acid or alchemist's fire with their low starting money? Maybe 1-2 PCs have 1-2 vials each.
Both vials of splash damage are thrown at the swarm. One misses because attack rolls at level 1 are terrible, and the other hits for 1d6. The swarm has now taken 4 points of damage and the party has no further way to damage it.
Either way most of the party has no good way to participate.

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