Fights with unbalanced numbers

[Fuzzypaws]

So, one of the things that makes CR so hard to use as an effective judge of combat difficulty in PF1 is the action economy of one monster vs a whole party of PCs. An average, not super-optimized party can still often steamroll monsters of higher CR, because that monster only gets one turn to the 4-6 turns of the player party.

Will there be official support in PF2 for "elite" enemies and monsters to get better action economy? This could come in the form of a bunch of powerful bonus reactions like 5E. It could also be as simple as the enemy getting two turns every round - the first turn at their rolled initiative, the second turn at their initiative minus 10.

I don't want to have to load up a dragon or death knight or demon fight with a bunch of mooks to make the monster a credible boss anymore.

[Lady Firebird]

Options for AoE/multi-target effects, and perhaps an "Elite" template or something that increases resistances wouldn't be bad. Heck, it could be ablative. So if you are up against a powerful death knight, he has an elite armor bonus that wears down after being attacked several times in a row (resetting on his initiative), making him more resistant to numbers but not immune to being ganged up on.

Likewise, teamwork bonuses and stuff would help if an elite monster is particularly tough to hit. And with the new skill system and hopefully the stunts and environmental interactions it inspires, maybe we can have things like spilling braziers to set a place on fire and hem in the enemy, or toppling heavy objects on a dragon to daze it, or the nimble Elf Rogue spilling marbles on the floor that trip up the enemy but allow her Master Acrobatics to easily skate through, etc.

[Planpanther]

I like some of the layer ideas and multiple initiative actions for solos. Im not happy about separate monster rules but im sure Paizo has considered some of these ideas.

[master_marshmallow]

I often invoked Dual Initiative from Mythic for BBEG encounters where there was one main enemy.

Depending on intended difficulty, they would get lackeys, usually if only to add layers of necessary action soakage to go through them to get to the BBEG.

[ChibiNyan]

Dual Initiative and like triple HP on some template, even if it's "gamey", are able to get a much meatier boss.

[Megistone]

Hero points for 'elite' opponents is my preferred solution.

[Envall]

I was expecting you to just say to make "extra acts" into a special ability.
The double turn stuff seems just more complicated way of doing that.

[Leyren]

I don't like the "elite" concept of MMOs. There's no reason why a, say, human boss opponent should have a hundred times the hit points my character has just to provide some challenge.

I'd prefer when they're well-prepared, well-equiped and have the terrain on their sides than simply applying some template to them and that's it.

It is a bit different for monsters, of course. They might be able to do unusal things like additional actions and reactions, just as damage reduction and energy resistances they get as their species' usual abilites. But here, too, applying a "boss monster" feat or template because they need to be tough isn't my thing.

[LuZeke]

One of my greatest hopes for PF2nd is a revamp to the entire CR concept. I don't know how it'd be done, but it's sorely needed. CR simply doesn't work beyond APL 4-5. APL appropriate monsters will get obliterated in 4*-1 combat by a party that is even remotely well specced.

Dual Initiative from Mythic (and many other things in Mythic) is a good way too beef up a BBEG to be a satisfactory opponent. There are other ways to do it as well, but most require some GM Chicanery.

If you go purely by CR to create a one-monster boss fight, then for that monster to be able to survive the punishment of a party, its CR needs to go up so high that the CR-appropriate damage output on the monster's behalf will one-shot half, if not most, of the party.