moving away from ability scores and towards training


Prerelease Discussion


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

This is just an idea, and I fully expect to get either no responses at all, or totally flamed for suggesting it, but I would really like to see the next edition of Pathfinder move away from raw ability scores being the end-all determination of what makes heroes great, and let it focus more on their training. In practice, this would look like leveling out the ability score bonuses and giving characters more skill points or feats to represent the extent to which a character specializes in their chosen field or fields.

Different feats could still have some attribute requirements (hopefully lowered), but this would move the game away from making min-maxing a necessity of good gaming and let the game encourage seeing a broader range of people as capable of becoming heroes by working hard/surviving through difficult experiences. I am not asking for the magic of heroes to be reduced. If anything, this will only increase the extent to which level becomes more important than ability scores, and it will also significantly reduce the extent to which buff-chaining can impact the game.

For example, spells and magic items that give bonuses to ability scores are almost essential gear because ability scores affect so many different aspects of the game. But if attack rolls, damage, spell DCs and other game mechanics were only drawing a +1 or +2 from attributes while getting significant bonuses from levels, feats and skills (the things that a character must actually dedicate time towards), this would completely eliminate the hyper-quest towards ubermensch as the only playable characters.

Perhaps it would even be possible for people to trade out ability score points for additional skill points or feats so that playing a regular person in a monstrous world would be as feasible for game play as chasing Iorian physical and mental perfection.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

In practice, this is a request for ability score bonuses to significantly reduced, and for many of these bonuses to be better achieved through feats, tactics, or circumstances createable by skills. If an 18 INT gives a +2 to a wizards save DCs and they can get the same with two feats, there will be a lot more wizards willing to settle in at lower INT scores and be more well rounded characters for example. A high INT can still be necessary for gaining access to higher level spells, but it will be less essential or necessary to find every possible way to push that stat higher.

This will also let skill unlocks and feats be the kind of things that separate masters from apprentices rather than a some what problematic metric of mental or physical attributes.


Maybe you should make your own RPG at this rate, with how big this is. It won't fly in this community, that's for sure.

However, if you want a similar "feel" to what you're saying, considering googling the Pathfinder "Epic6" ruleset that is centered around this sort of playstyle.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

I have never heard of epic 6 so I will have to check it out, but I am not asking for less magical or amazing heroes. Only ones whose abilities and paths are less determined by the stacking of attributes into incredibly narrow paths and more by the aspects of the character that reflect specialized training. It sounds like the new edition is already headed this way with different skill masteries and unlocks that require some specialization to work. I am just suggesting that lowering the "necessity" of attribute min/maxing would easily be done by letting feats, class abilities and skills play a bigger role than raw attribute modifiers.

Level to damage is a huge example of this, which seems like the new system is already considering adopting or playing with.

Community / Forums / Archive / Pathfinder / Playtests & Prerelease Discussions / Pathfinder Playtest / Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion / moving away from ability scores and towards training All Messageboards
Recent threads in Pathfinder Playtest Prerelease Discussion