Crazy Idea: Self-Simulacrum & Retraining


Rules Questions


I was wondering:
A simulacrum is a 1/2 power version of the imitated creature
and it is immutable...but the original creature can be mutated through retraining!

So I was wondering...for purpose of having a "crafting assistant", could make self if a spellcaster retrained himself with a different Craft Item feat, created a Simulacrum (with that feat) and retrained to the original feat?

Wouldn't this give him access to an "assistant" capable of providing him with the feats he needs for crafting?

Couldn't be this a good way to expand his feat "pool" for crafting?

Thanks,
Skarm


Simulacrum is a an spell that is especially able to be abused.

Crafting is a system that is especially able to be abused.

Ask your GM and let them decide.

Edit:
The real question here is actually:
Can a creature without the appropriate crafting feat be the "creator" of a item by having help from another creature.

I don't actually know the answer to this off-hand, but this is the real question.


LoL, yes it is possible.

Retraining a feat is not really an effective way to go. Why? The simulacrum is at half your level and thus items he crafts will have a lower effective level and DC. The primary caster would have to craft the item back up and that uses you AND the simulacrum which is inefficient. At half level the simulacrum will also have half your feats including ability increases at 4, 8, 12...
While simulacrums make good casting buddies for cooperative magic and a way to access more low level spells, they don't make good high level crafters.
So you are more right than you thought as it's a crazy bad idea.


Claxon wrote:

The real question here is actually:

Can a creature without the appropriate crafting feat be the "creator" of a item by having help from another creature.
I don't actually know the answer to this off-hand, but this is the real question.
Magic Item Creation wrote:
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.

The creator of the item is the one with the creation feat, and the one to make the DC roll.


That's what I thought Dr Styx. In essence it would be a very bad idea to do this, as the simulacrum would be a 10th level caster (at max) and be way behind in their ability to create items.


Dr Styx wrote:
Claxon wrote:

The real question here is actually:

Can a creature without the appropriate crafting feat be the "creator" of a item by having help from another creature.
I don't actually know the answer to this off-hand, but this is the real question.
Magic Item Creation wrote:
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.
The creator of the item is the one with the creation feat, and the one to make the DC roll.

crafting dcs are so ridiculously easy to make that this isn't much of a deterrent.

The only thing to pay attention to is making sure the assistant meets the pre-reqs to take said item creation feat. For example, Craft Staff requires you to be 11+ and craft construct requires other crafting feats.

In my experience, when it comes to crafting magic items the only real limitation is how much gold you have.


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Craft Construct can be acquired at 5th level.
Simulacrum usually needs 13th level to cast.
At that time, you make a 6th level crafter simulacrum.

What you really want is to have a 14th level caster making a 7th level simulacrum that also has the cooperative crafting feat. Then you can speed up the crafting speed. Heck, the simulacrum might even get a valet familiar.

/cevah


There's also this spiffy HAMMER TIME. There's also a way to get Brew Potions through a wayfinder.


Also, for getting help, POPPETS!


Zarius wrote:
Also, for getting help, POPPETS!

Helpers, yes. And cheap. But only the Poppet Familiar can get feats. To do so, you need to get it the feat somehow. Possibly via Valet Familiar Archetype.

/cevah


Cevah wrote:
Zarius wrote:
Also, for getting help, POPPETS!

Helpers, yes. And cheap. But only the Poppet Familiar can get feats. To do so, you need to get it the feat somehow. Possibly via Valet Familiar Archetype.

/cevah

Can't you technically upgrade a Poppet's HD, the way you can with a construct? o.o


Zarius wrote:
Cevah wrote:
Zarius wrote:
Also, for getting help, POPPETS!

Helpers, yes. And cheap. But only the Poppet Familiar can get feats. To do so, you need to get it the feat somehow. Possibly via Valet Familiar Archetype.

/cevah

Can't you technically upgrade a Poppet's HD, the way you can with a construct? o.o

Yes and no.

There is no clear definition of creating a construct with extra HD. Homunculi have a define way, as do Animated Objects, but general constructs don't.
For added HD, there is a clear definition, with a limitation of 1/2 original HD. Poppets start with 1 HD. So I can a max of 0 HD. :-(

Also, the poppet has a dash for the int score. So I have to add a Bioconstruct Modification at 22,750 gp to get an Int score needed to make use of any feats. Since I can buy a poppet for 310 gp, that seems excessive.

/cevah


Mmmmff. Yeah, that would be a bit much, I suppose. Though being "programmed" to do a thing should bypass int stuff. But, it is what it is.

Shadow Lodge

Dr Styx wrote:
Magic Item Creation wrote:
Note that all items have prerequisites in their descriptions. These prerequisites must be met for the item to be created. Most of the time, they take the form of spells that must be known by the item's creator (although access through another magic item or spellcaster is allowed). The DC to create a magic item increases by +5 for each prerequisite the caster does not meet. The only exception to this is the requisite item creation feat, which is mandatory. In addition, you cannot create potions, spell-trigger, or spell-completion magic items without meeting their spell prerequisites.
The creator of the item is the one with the creation feat, and the one to make the DC roll.

Spells, at least, can be provided by characters other than the item's creator, so you can provide spells for crafting if your simulacra is too low level to cast them.

Prerequisites such as "creator must have a career level equal to the times the weapon's enhancement bonus" or "creator must have X ranks in Skill" would have to be met, though (or the increase in creating DC would kick in).

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