I'm taking part of a new game starting from level 1.
The other party members are an elf Mystic Archer from the new compendium book, a half elf draconic bloodrager, human paladin, and then me. We will also have a few players that may bounce in and out of sessions.
The mystic archer is the only experienced player, and I have some knowledge.
I'm pretty committed to an Elf gish build, but I wanted some advice for a weapon and feats.
Everyone rolled for their stats so I've got:
Elf with:
STR: 11
DEX: 19
CON: 15
INT: 20
WIS: 12
CHA: 14
Traits: Magical Knack, Student of Philosophy, Sentimental, Warrior of Old
My planned build is Arcanist 1, Swashbuckler 2, Arcanist 3-7, Eldritch Knight 8-17, then 3 classes of something else.
Current build plan is (open to changes):
1: Arcanist (blade adept) - Bond Wakizashi, Feat: Dimensional Slide
2: Swashbuckler
3: Arcanist (blade adept) - Extra Exploit - Quick Study
4: Arcanist (blade adept)
5: Arcanist (blade adept) - Extra Exploit - Magus Arcana Arcane Accuracy
6: Arcanist (blade adept) - Metamagic Knowledge - Intensified Spell
7: Arcanist (blade adept) - Leadership
8: Eldritch Knight - Deadly Aim
9: Eldritch Knight - Extra Exploit Eldritch Blade
10: Eldritch Knight
11: Eldritch Knight - Maximize Spell
12: Eldritch Knight - Improved Critical: Wakizashi
13: Eldritch Knight - Empower Spell
14: Eldritch Knight
15: Eldritch Knight - Spell Perfection (Telekinesis)
16: Eldritch Knight - Weapon Focus: Wakizashi
17: Eldritch Knight - ?
18: Weapon Specialist: Wakizashi
19: Greater Weapon Focus (Wakizashi)
20:
Due to story reasons, I have to start as my spellcaster class or risk not having enough spells (we will be finding our spells rather than leveling up, so I won't start with any if I level up into it).
From the looks of it, my role in the group is the 9th level spells, being the face (I'm the only noble in the group), and essentially be a middle line. This way I can cast heavy spells as needed or wade in with the front line assuming I have bracers of armor or mage armor for early game.
Leadership is for kingdom building and potentially explain the players that would bounce in and out.
We haven't worked out how crafting would work here or if anyone would get it.
I'm told that we are going to be on a boat at some time.
I plan on maxing, Knowledge Arcana, Spellcraft, and Diplomacy.
What ranks should the rest of my knowledge skills, fly, bluff, and acrobatics should be?
My build is leaning towards the Telekinesis spam build, hence the chosen metamagic, though I am worried about the lack of extend and quicken.
I'm partial on the blade adept as the sword is great for roleplaying, and may be necessary if I am getting thrown off the boat.
I went with Wakizashi's because I was concerned that we may run into something that we may need to vorpal, so I wanted weapons that I can throw that can vorpal.
This is eating up the number of my feats, as inspired blade would open up a feat slot, but the gm would not let me change from rapier to Wakizashi. So any advice on feat management would help.
Would it be better to take a different Martial?
I chose swashbuckler for the parrying and dodging for combat and the Derring-Do to make up for my weaker strength.
What about focusing on a different weapon?
What should the last 3 levels be, either more arcanist or prestige classes?
Any recommendations on 3.5 prestige classes? The gm mentioned that if he had the book, we may be able to convert it.
I've been looking at Spell Sword, which would allow me to have armor but needs more armor feats, and Dragon Slayer but that needs dodge and iron will.
Also does arcane accuracy double from spell perfection?
That is the main purpose of it.
Note: I'm calling this the Noctis build after FFXV, so that's the theme I was focusing on for the game. I'd appreciate any recommendations on this end, even if it's for roleplaying.
If you are thinking of taking a level in Swashbuckler, I recommend you take that first. I know you said you need to be a Spellcaster first-off, but you get max hit points at level 1, it's a shame to get 6 hit points instead of 10.
At first blush, your character seems overwrought. Why not just be a Bladebound Magus? I don't see 2-weapon fighting, so why a Wakisashi? A Katana would do more damage.
I see you are taking Improved Critical, good choice with wakishashi, but I don't see much other development as a Crit-Fisher. If you don't want to develop that, maybe you should just use a Bastard Sword.
Sindreamer wrote: Any recommendations on 3.5 prestige classes? The gm mentioned that if he had the book, we may be able to convert it. Holy crap! You GM is going to let you mingle 3.5 stuff in with Pathfinder? How about 3.5 Feats? How about 3.0 stuff? Your DPR could go into the thousands.
You might want to step behind the blast shield while I build this character...
Scott Wilhelm wrote: At first blush, your character seems overwrought. Why not just be a Bladebound Magus? I don't see 2-weapon fighting, so why a Wakisashi? A Katana would do more damage. I went with Wakizashi because it counted as a piercing weapon for swashbuckler skills, had a crit range of 18-20 for spell critical, and because it weighed 2 pounds for telekinesis.
I'd like to switch over to katana, but it doesn't work with swashbuckler. I could change the swashbuckler to fighter, but I didn't think it gave me the early help (although that free feat is soooo tempting). Do you think that would be the better way? I can technically still use a katana for telekinesis for the same damage.
The bladebound magus lacked an effect like dimensional slide, which is one of the reasons I was leaning towards the arcanist, and he lacked 7th level spells in order to utilize telekinesis at the highest point possible (magical lineage + Empower + Intensify + Spell Perfection(Maximize)).
Scott Wilhelm wrote: I see you are taking Improved Critical, good choice with wakishashi, but I don't see much other development as a Crit-Fisher. If you don't want to develop that, maybe you should just use a Bastard Sword. I haven't actually considered the crit tree. Do you have any recommendations?
Why spell perfection on telekinesis? None of those metamagic feats would affect it as far as I can tell.
Normally you can't take extra exploit until you have an exploit.
If you're considering D&D 3.5 prestige classes take a look at Abjurant Champion. Also you might consider asking on the giantitp forums, they've got more recent knowledge there of D&D than I have.
avr wrote: Why spell perfection on telekinesis? None of those metamagic feats would affect it as far as I can tell. From what I read, I can throw swords that do their normal damage. This damage can be maximized. The maximum number of swords I can throw is 15, which intensify should raise to 20. Empower is empower based on the original damage. This should only take an 8th level spell if I want to use everything, or I can opt for lesser variations of the attack. With colossal wakizashi's, this should be 4d6 (maximized) + 20 (deadly aim, weapon specialization)+ 2d6 (empowered) per sword. With spell critical, I attack 40 times.
Do you know if Arcane accuracy is doubled? It would keep telekinesis at 20 attacks, but it may be worth it to improve accuracy.
avr wrote: Normally you can't take extra exploit until you have an exploit. I actually did not know that. If Arcane accuracy doesn't double, it would really not be worth taking the blade adept, aside from the roleplaying side. I will adjust the build above to reflect this ruling before dropping blade adept.
*I can't edit it at the moment :/*
avr wrote: If you're considering D&D 3.5 prestige classes take a look at Abjurant Champion. Also you might consider asking on the giantitp forums, they've got more recent knowledge there of D&D than I have. Abjurant Champion looks interesting. I'll have to see if he has the book.
I hope you guys have a cohort or something; IMO, 1 paladin does not cut it for party healing. Status effects could become a huge problem. Would you be willing to contemplate a divine (as opposed to arcane) rebuild?
pad300 wrote: I hope you guys have a cohort or something; IMO, 1 paladin does not cut it for party healing. Status effects could become a huge problem. Would you be willing to contemplate a divine (as opposed to arcane) rebuild? Admittedly, I had my heart set on an arcane class. One of the players that will jump in occasionally will be a druid, and on off times, I may be able to use them as a cohort later on. The last player that may jump in has not chosen a class yet.
For anyone's interest, the players that will jump in and out are playing the following classes:
Bard
Rogue
Druid
Undecided
I'm not sure how the GM will handle this, but I was going to offer if I take leadership and then I am essentially taking them with us as needed.
Well, I just realized that Intensify won't do what I need for Telekinesis. Would Extend be the most optimal replacement?
Also, what about using the white mage archetype instead of blade adept to make up for the healing?
Sindreamer wrote: I went with Wakizashi because it counted as a piercing weapon for swashbuckler skills... The bladebound magus lacked an effect like dimensional slide, But you're only taking 1 level in Swashbuckler: what are you getting out of that 1 level really: a bonus on certain skills, a special ability to parry certain blows, some extra 5' steps, Weapon Finesse? If you were just a Bladebound Magus, your inability to parry would be more than offset by the fact that you can wear Armor. You can't wear armor as an Arcanist.
Why do you want Dimensional Slide? It's nice, but you don't do Sneak Attack Damage, so it's certainly not more than nice. If you really like Flanking, then probably then maybe take 1 level in Arcanist for Dimensional Slide, but take most of your levels in Unchained Rogue. Then you score Sneak Attack Damage whenever you Flank someone, and you get Weapon Finesse for free, and you get Dex-to-Damage for your Wakisashi. You don't get your Panache bonus for those Skills, but you get more skill points.
Sindreamer wrote: had a crit range of 18-20 for spell critical Swashbucklers do replenish Panache when they crit. That is something I didn't really consider. But I don't think you get very much out of that if you are only taking 1 level in Swashbuckler.
Sindreamer wrote: and because it weighed 2 pounds for telekinesis. I don't like the idea of using a wakisashi as a ranged weapon, especially if it's your Black Blade. I think it would make more sense to drop the idea of animating your sword with telekinesis and just have some weapons on your belt that you can throw: a supply of short spears and throwing hammers and axes, or better yet, Magic Wands or Spells like from Magus Spell Combat! That can certainly give you a swashbuckling look: a sword in 1 hand and a magic wand instead of a flintlock pistol in the other. If you really wanted to use your sword to fight at a distance, take the Throw Anything Feat and get yourself a Blinkback Belt, which will teleport your sword back to your belt as soon as your throwing attack is resolved. Then you re-draw it as a Free Action with the Quickdraw Feat.
Sindreamer wrote: I haven't actually considered the crit tree. Do you have any recommendations? Yeah, I was thinking if I wanted to emphasize Critting, I would go Warpriest, a gishy character that casts Divine Spells. I would save the Exotic Weapon Feat and 2 weapon Fight with 2 Kukris. Kukris normally do even less damage then Wakisashis, but that doesn't matter because Warpriests substitute their Sacred Weapon Damage for the regular weapon damage: 1d6 for a level 1 Warpriest, and Kukris also have a Threat Range of 18-20. I would take that Warpriest Archetype that has Tactician and the Bonus Teamwork Feat: Holy Tactician or Divine Commander or something, and I would take either Outflank or Seize the Moment, both of which give out Attacks of Opportunity whenever you score a Crit on someone you are flanking. You won't get Improved Crit until level 9, but your plan isn't to get it before level 12. A single level dip--delaying Improved Crit--into Arcanist to lock in Flanking might be worthwhile then. Also maybe a dip into Living Monolith for the Enlarge Person SLA--extra Damage. But dip sparingly: the more you dip, the fewer spells you get, and the longer it takes to get Improved Crit, Crit Focus (+4 to Confirm a Crit) and those lovely Crit Focus Feats like Blinding Critical.
Sindreamer wrote: pad300 wrote: I hope you guys have a cohort or something; IMO, 1 paladin does not cut it for party healing. Status effects could become a huge problem. Would you be willing to contemplate a divine (as opposed to arcane) rebuild? Admittedly, I had my heart set on an arcane class. One of the players that will jump in occasionally will be a druid, and on off times, I may be able to use them as a cohort later on. The last player that may jump in has not chosen a class yet.
For anyone's interest, the players that will jump in and out are playing the following classes:
Bard
Rogue
Druid
Undecided
I'm not sure how the GM will handle this, but I was going to offer if I take leadership and then I am essentially taking them with us as needed. Your party doesn't have a tanky character. It doesn't have a blaster-caster, and the closest thing it has to a healer is a Druid that will attend irregularly. Seeing that makes me think that maybe you should go more for like a Wizard-Archer:
1Level1: Ranger
2R1Wizard1:
3R1W2:
4R1W3
5R1W4
6R1W5
7R1W5Eldritch Knight1
8R1W5E2
9R1W5E2Arcane Archer1
Then the rest of your levels in Arcane Archer. With no tank, your party is committed to running from every combat and shooting your enemies to death at range every time, but that's workable.
To be the party healer and the party tank, I'd say go Warpriest or Paladin. The Paladin Archetype that has Tactician has a superior version of it: it will work with any of your Teamwork Feats, not just the one you select as a Bonus Feat. So you can take like Broken Wing Gambit and that will mean whenever any of your allies is attacked, all your allies get Attacks of opportunity. A character like that, I'd wear Full Plate and use a Greatsword: when you get an AoO, you want that bonus attack to be a big one.
You could be the party blaster-wizard and the party healer: Mystic Theurge.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: But you're only taking 1 level in Swashbuckler: what are you getting out of that 1 level really: a bonus on certain skills, a special ability to parry certain blows, some extra 5' steps, Weapon Finesse? If you were just a Bladebound Magus, your inability to parry would be more than offset by the fact that you can wear Armor. You can't wear armor as an Arcanist.
Why do you want Dimensional Slide? It's nice, but you don't do Sneak Attack Damage, so it's certainly not more than nice. If you really like Flanking, then probably then maybe take 1 level in Arcanist for Dimensional Slide, but take most of your levels in Unchained Rogue. Then you score Sneak Attack Damage whenever you Flank someone, and you get Weapon Finesse for free, and you get Dex-to-Damage for your Wakisashi. You don't get your Panache bonus for those Skills, but you get more skill points.
About dimension slide, part of it is roleplaying and part of it is out of combat utility. Also, as a last resort, I can also jump onto priority targets. Honestly, it just seems like it would be fun.
I'm open to changing out swashbuckler for another class.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: Swashbucklers do replenish Panache when they crit. That is something I didn't really consider. But I don't think you get very much out of that if you are only taking 1 level in Swashbuckler. The build ends with 15 BAB, so it's not impossible to take advantage of the panache, but I am open to changing it out. Swashbuckler doesn't seem to mix well with 3.5 prestige classes.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: I don't like the idea of using a wakisashi as a ranged weapon, especially if it's your Black Blade. I think it would make more sense to drop the idea of animating your sword with telekinesis and just have some weapons on your belt that you can throw: a supply of short spears and throwing hammers and axes, or better yet, Magic Wands or Spells like from Magus Spell Combat! That can certainly give you a swashbuckling look: a sword in 1 hand and a magic wand instead of a flintlock pistol in the other. If you really wanted to use your sword to fight at a distance, take the Throw Anything Feat and get yourself a... I wasn't planning on throwing the black blade Wakizashi. I was planning on throwing colossal wakizashi for the 4d6 damage and 18-20 crit.
I do admit that the longsword is more consistent in it's damage by throwing colossal sawtoothe sabre's at 6d6 and 19-20.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: pad300 wrote: I hope you guys have a cohort or something; IMO, 1 paladin does not cut it for party healing. Status effects could become a huge problem. Would you be willing to contemplate a divine (as opposed to arcane) rebuild? Your party doesn't have a tanky character. It doesn't have a blaster-caster, and the closest thing it has to a healer is a Druid that will attend irregularly. Seeing that makes me think that maybe you should go more for like a Wizard-Archer:
1Level1: Ranger
2R1Wizard1:
3R1W2:
4R1W3
5R1W4
6R1W5
7R1W5Eldritch Knight1
8R1W5E2
9R1W5E2Arcane Archer1
Then the rest of your levels in Arcane Archer. With no tank, your party is committed to running from every combat and shooting your enemies to death at range every time, but that's workable.
To be the party healer and the party tank, I'd say go Warpriest or Paladin. The Paladin Archetype that has Tactician has a superior version of it: it will work with any of your Teamwork Feats, not just the one you select as a Bonus Feat. So you can take like Broken Wing Gambit and that will mean whenever any of your allies is attacked, all your allies get Attacks of opportunity. A character like that, I'd wear Full Plate and use a Greatsword: when you get an AoO, you want that bonus attack to be a big one.
You could be the party blaster-wizard and the party healer: Mystic Theurge.
This is a very good point you guys have brought up. No one is really interested in playing a cleric or white necromancer.
Looking into it, I could take the white mage archetype instead which gives me okay healing, but this doesn't resolve the status conditions.
I always thought that Paladins tanked decently, so this is a surprise to me. I suppose I could help by summoning creatures to help tank, but my plan was to honestly let the Paladin and Bloodrager handle it.
I'd still like to play a caster though.
As for being short on DPR, is the telekinesis colossal sword spam not enough? The average damage is around 270 at level 12.
At level 15, this jumps to around 675 a turn thanks to maximize.
Before that, I guess the Mystic Archer and Bloodrager are the only ones dealing reliable damage. I was going to provide battlefield control with magic.
I'm looking at the crit tree and the blinding feat easily looks really good. However, bleeding critical stacks, right? If I crit 15 times, would that give them a bleed of 30d6?
Also does anyone know if Arcane Accuracy doubles from spell perfection?
spell perfection wrote: if you have other feats which allow you to apply a set numerical bonus to any aspect of this spell (such as Spell Focus, Spell Penetration, Weapon Focus [ray], and so on), double the bonus granted by that feat when applied to this spell. It specifies feats. You're spending a feat on extra exploit to get an exploit to use on a magus arcana, which allows you to spend a point from your arcane reservoir to add your Int to your attack rolls for a round. If anything along that chain causes a problem then you don't get the bonus doubled (e.g. if your GM thinks an exploit gained from a class feature shouldn't be different from an exploit gained from a feat.)
Status conditions might be best dealt with via the use magic device skill and the odd scroll IMO.
Sindreamer wrote: I wasn't planning on throwing the black blade Wakizashi. I was planning on throwing colossal wakizashi for the 4d6 damage and 18-20 crit.
I do admit that the longsword is more consistent in it's damage by throwing colossal sawtoothe sabre's at 6d6 and 19-20.
I don't think Telekinesis works that way. I don't think Telekinesis lets you wield your Wakisashi as if it were a sword.
Telekinesis wrote: Violent Thrust: Alternatively, the spell energy can be spent in a single round. You can hurl one object or creature per caster level (maximum 15) that are within range and all within 10 feet of each other toward any target within 10 feet per level of all the objects. You can hurl up to a total weight of 25 pounds per caster level (maximum 375 pounds at 15th level).... 1d6 points of damage per 25 pounds (for hard, dense objects). Am I missing something? Are you talking about using some other kind of Telekinesis?
Even so, Telekinesis is a powerful attack spell, but you'd expect powerful attack spells from a level 15 caster. And lots of options we discussed will let you do that.
I expect he's talking about the phrase 'Weapons cause standard damage' which you didn't quote Scott. BTW, that doesn't sound like an effect of the spell to me and so doesn't sound like something that can be maximised or empowered.
Also 15 * 32 pound colossal wakizashi or sawtooth sabre = 480 pounds total, which is an annoyingly large amount.
avr wrote: I expect he's talking about the phrase 'Weapons cause standard damage' which you didn't quote Scott. BTW, that doesn't sound like an effect of the spell to me and so doesn't sound like something that can be maximised or empowered.
Also 15 * 32 pound colossal wakizashi or sawtooth sabre = 480 pounds total, which is an annoyingly large amount.
Ah, so I was missing something!
Scott Wilhelm wrote: avr wrote: I expect he's talking about the phrase 'Weapons cause standard damage' which you didn't quote Scott. BTW, that doesn't sound like an effect of the spell to me and so doesn't sound like something that can be maximised or empowered.
Also 15 * 32 pound colossal wakizashi or sawtooth sabre = 480 pounds total, which is an annoyingly large amount.
Ah, so I was missing something! Even if you are using Telekinesis, if you are using an inappropriately-sized weapon to make an attack roll to do standard damage with a chance of critting and stuff, don't you still take the -4 penalty for attacking with an inappropriately-sized weapon?
Sindreamer wrote: avr wrote: Why spell perfection on telekinesis? None of those metamagic feats would affect it as far as I can tell. From what I read, I can throw swords that do their normal damage. This damage can be maximized. The maximum number of swords I can throw is 15, which intensify should raise to 20. Empower is empower based on the original damage. This should only take an 8th level spell if I want to use everything, or I can opt for lesser variations of the attack. With colossal wakizashi's, this should be 4d6 (maximized) + 20 (deadly aim, weapon specialization)+ 2d6 (empowered) per sword. With spell critical, I attack 40 times.
metamagics will do nothing for telekinesis, intensified only increases the max damage die cap, telekinesis is just caped at how many items you can throw.
empower effects how much damage the spell is doing, telekinesis does no direct damage its the weapon you are throwing via telekinesis that is doing the damage, same goes for maximize
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Sindreamer wrote: I'm pretty committed to an Elf gish build, but I wanted some advice for a weapon and feats. First off, the progression has some errors. Since blade adept replaces the exploits normally gained at 1st and 3rd level with other features, you can't take the Extra Arcanist Exploit feat (you don't meet the prerequisites) until you gain an actual exploit (arcanist 5th).
With those stats, it's probably better to go:
1 - Inspired blade swashbuckler; feat (Fencing Grace; Dex to attack rolls and damage with a rapier at level 1, plus Weapon Focus (Rapier) from inspired blade; also, inspired blade adds both Int mod and Cha mod to determine panache)
2 - Blade adept arcanist; Sword Bond (Rapier)
3 - Blade adept arcanist; feat (Arcane Armor Training)
4 - Blade adept arcanist; Sentient Sword
5 - Blade adept arcanist; feat (Intensified Spell)
6 - Blade adept arcanist; Exploit (Spellstrike)
7 - Blade adept arcanist; feat (Extra Arcanist Exploit (Eldritch Blade))
8 - Eldritch knight; Bonus combat feat (Barroom Brawler)
9 - Eldritch knight; feat (Extra Arcanist Exploit (Magus Arcana/Close Range)
10- Eldritch knight
11- Eldritch knight; feat (Improved Critical (Rapier)); retrain Arcane Armor Training to Quicken Spell
...
Lady-J wrote: metamagics will do nothing for telekinesis, intensified only increases the max damage die cap, telekinesis is just caped at how many items you can throw.
empower effects how much damage the spell is doing, telekinesis does no direct damage its the weapon you are throwing via telekinesis that is doing the damage, same goes for maximize
Really? That's too bad. I've kept finding sites that talk about it working, but DM's made calls against it due to the absurdity. I'll surprise the DM with it and let him make the call.
Scott Wilhelm wrote: Bleeding doesn't stack. I thought bleeding from bleeding critical stacked?
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/bleeding-critical-combat-critica l/
Scott Wilhelm wrote: Am I missing something? Are you talking about using some other kind of Telekinesis?
Even so, Telekinesis is a powerful attack spell, but you'd expect powerful attack spells from a level 15 caster. And lots of options we discussed will let you do that.
I'm not disagreeing, it's just a spell I plan on having fun with for the absurdity.
I was considering the white mage archetype to help with the healing, as it lets me use cure cleric spells. This way, I wouldn't have to give up being the spellcaster for the group.
I've actually mentioned your recommendation to our Paladin and he was going to go look into the Holy Tactician archetype.
Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber
Note that there is a wizard archetype (sword binder) that sounds closer to the concept of "use a melee weapon at range with magic."
A similar progression, with slightly less BAB, would be as follows:
1 - Inspired blade swashbuckler; feat (Fencing Grace)
2 - Sword binder wizard; Arcane Bond (Rapier)
3 - Sword binder wizard; feat (Arcane Armor Training)
4 - Sword binder wizard
5 - Sword binder wizard; feat (Intensified Spell)
6 - Sword binder wizard; cast touch spells at range; Bonus Feat (Arcane Discovery (Fast Study))
7 - Sword binder wizard; feat (Barroom Brawler)
8 - Sword binder wizard
9 - Sword binder wizard; cast touch spells and attack with sword at range; feat (?)
10- Eldritch knight; Bonus combat feat (?)
11- Eldritch knight; feat (?)
12- Eldritch knight; retrain Arcane Armor Training to Quicken Spell
...
Sindreamer wrote: I thought bleeding from bleeding critical stacked? huh, so they do. Normally, multiple bleeds don't stack, but Bleeding Critical specifically says it does.
Cool.
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