So I found this blurb "Abusive to the rules" in the monsters as PCs section and I wanted to know what this means. Can anyone help?
Maybe beating the rules to fit your preconceptions of reality?
It means pissing off the GM, which is something you should avoid doing in any case.
The section is telling GM's to use their judgment when evaluating the power and abilities of monstrous PC's. So literally, it means anything that subjectively offends their sensibilities.
Lmao. Thanks guys.
It means, hyper optimizing to be significantly more powerful than is expected or designed to be by a certain level.
What is the expected power level say at Lv. 5. I keep getting reasonably off scales from people. Or does this tie into the sensibilities deal Dasrak stated.
One of my personal favorite is using Wonderous item at Lv 3 to get a combat spell, like burning hands or magic missile, as a unlimited use activated item so that I'm not sitting there looking at my hands when I run out of spells for the day.
Always sets people off. Is that out of place at Lv. 3?
What is the expected power level say at Lv. 5.
Depends on your group. What's too powerful at one table could be too weak at another.
One of my personal favorite is using Wonderous item at Lv 3 to get a combat spell, like burning hands or magic missile, as a unlimited use activated item so that I'm not sitting there looking at my hands when I run out of spells for the day.
It's a custom magic item that would be up to GM discretion. The biggest issue here in my view is that you appear to be trying to get around crafting feats, since this sort of use-activated item is usually the purview of wands and scrolls. In terms of cost-value, three wands will cost you 2250 gp, which is comparable to the cost 2000 gp of the at-will permanent item, but 150 charges between them will easily last a full campaign. So this looks to be an attempt to use Craft Wondrous Item to duplicate Craft Wand, which is a bit dodgy at any level.
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1) What is the expected power level say at Lv. 5.
2) Or does this tie into the sensibilities deal Dasrak stated.
3) Wonderous item at Lv 3 to get unlimited use activated item
1) Ask your GM.
2) Yes3) If I'm your GM, I'd say "you funny". If you asked again, I'd say "wait you are serious?" If you say "yes", I'd say "maybe you are not right for my group".
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I read that section as explicitly informing you that "expect your GM to veto, say no to, or otherwise limit any interactions using these rules that your GM finds inappropriate."
If the GM says you can't take something from the "Monsters as PCs" section, they don't really need to give a better explanation than "the book said this might happen."
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What is the expected power level say at Lv. 5. I keep getting reasonably off scales from people.
I like to use this table. There's a link to the article that references it where you can find explanations of the numbers and how he came to them.
It's a custom magic item that would be up to GM discretion. The biggest issue here in my view is that you appear to be trying to get around crafting feats, since this sort of use-activated item is usually the purview of wands and scrolls. In terms of cost-value, three wands will cost you 2250 gp, which is comparable to the cost 2000 gp of the at-will permanent item, but 150 charges between them will easily last a full campaign. So this looks to be an attempt to use Craft Wondrous Item to duplicate Craft Wand, which is a bit dodgy at any level.
Questionably so since there are many items that create spells at will such as the Robe of Stars casting Plane Shift, Treasure Hunter Goggles with Detect Secret Doors, and Apprentice's Cheating Gloves casting Mage Hand and Prestidigitation.
The rules for crafting items are odd/off because of things like this. There is an oddity when it comes to constant mage armor costing 16000 instead of 2000gp but thats another conversation. it doesnt actually add up based on the typing.
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Yea. abusing the rules is using your knowledge of the game (sometimes but not always knowing more about the game that the GM) to gain an unfair advantage. Just because you can make a half-dragon half-demon troll lich that now regenerates like the tarrasque, doesn't mean the GM has to allow it. (That example is from the winner of a silly contest or something Paizo did in Dragon magazine back in the day, make the most broken creature you can, that still follows the rules as written.)
Yea. abusing the rules is using your knowledge of the game (sometimes but not always knowing more about the game that the GM) to gain an unfair advantage. Just because you can make a half-dragon half-demon troll lich that now regenerates like the tarrasque, doesn't mean the GM has to allow it. (That example is from the winner of a silly contest or something Paizo did in Dragon magazine back in the day, make the most broken creature you can, that still follows the rules as written.)
Yeah. That whole more knowledge than the GM thing always bothered me but its a social mechanic that comes with the game. That does help clarify things though. Thanks.
Questionably so since there are many items that create spells at will such as the Robe of Stars casting Plane Shift, Treasure Hunter Goggles with Detect Secret Doors, and Apprentice's Cheating Gloves casting Mage Hand and Prestidigitation.
There are specific items published by Paizo that do cross this line, but a choice selection is very different from a free buffet of whatever you want. Again, that's the purview of wands and scrolls; you can slap any spell you want on those, and that's the intent. Wondrous items are supposed to be more limited than that. It can be hard to delineate a line in the sand when the problem isn't any individual custom item, which is why a lot of GM's just flat-out say no.
Just because you can make a half-dragon half-demon troll lich that now regenerates like the tarrasque, doesn't mean the GM has to allow it. (That example is from the winner of a silly contest or something Paizo did in Dragon magazine back in the day, make the most broken creature you can, that still follows the rules as written.)
That combo doesn't look remotely overpowered to me. Consider that the Lich template has a minimum level of 11, so you'd need to be something like a Troll Bloodrager 11 to qualify for it. Even before adding templates, this puts you at an effective level of 16th. Half-Dragon is worth another +2, Half-Fiend is worth +3, and lich is worth +2. This puts your effective level equivalent at 23rd. This was probably a 3.5 era article, so maybe there were some intricacies I'm unaware of, but by Pathfinder monster as PC's rules this doesn't look like a problem at all.
It's a comical combination to be sure, but as part of an APL 23 party it seems a bit on the underpowered side if anything.
Questionably so since there are many items that create spells at will such as the Robe of Stars casting Plane Shift, Treasure Hunter Goggles with Detect Secret Doors, and Apprentice's Cheating Gloves casting Mage Hand and Prestidigitation.There are specific items published by Paizo that do cross this line, but a choice selection is very different from a free buffet of whatever you want. Again, that's the purview of wands and scrolls; you can slap any spell you want on those, and that's the intent. Wondrous items are supposed to be more limited than that. It can be hard to delineate a line in the sand when the problem isn't any individual custom item, which is why a lot of GM's just flat-out say no.
I hear you. Ive had more "issues" when the item combo-ed spells. Like any spell effect from the item and the effects of Ill Omen. Kinda on the extra side but it is damn effective to force the creature to roll twice vs any of the save or suck grade spells like charm person or some higher level spell like Phantasmal Killer. its Asinine really. especially since Ill Omen doesn't have a save to negate.
That or using Cure Light Wounds or False Life to gain temporary hitpoints each round + Stunning Barrier, Greater to stun anyone who attacks whether or not they get through the temp HP. Throw in Windy Escape for more defensive stacking. Side note: thats using Cure Light Wounds abstractly so that its not fast healing.