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I've got a campaign setting that I'm building, and the shaman and witch classes are both really perfect fits for the setting, but familiars aren't. Any ideas for what I could replace them with? Or perhaps, do you think the feature might be minor enough that I could just cut it entirely without disrupting things too much? If you think it matters, the campaign will be E8 with no lean.
I've got a campaign setting that I'm building, and the shaman and witch classes are both really perfect fits for the setting, but familiars aren't. Any ideas for what I could replace them with? Or perhaps, do you think the feature might be minor enough that I could just cut it entirely without disrupting things too much? If you think it matters, the campaign will be E8 with no lean.
The Bonded Witch archetype sounds perfect for what you're looking for. You can easily waive the "half-elf only" requirement. I'm not sure if there's a shaman equivalent, but it seems pretty easy to port it over from witch to shaman.
I wouldn't cut it entirely without replacing it--there are some mechanical benefits to having a familiar (Alertness, other species-specific bonuses) that are nice little boosts.
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Giving the witch the wizard's bonded item would certainly work. I suppose in a pinch I could do the same for the shaman... I'd like to just swap out the familiar (well, spirit animal, before anyone comes in to correct me), though. Largely to maximize compatibility with other archetypes, but also because it's just the animal companion that's out of place. Everything else is perfectly fine as-is.
Giving the witch the wizard's bonded item would certainly work. I suppose in a pinch I could do the same for the shaman... I'd like to just swap out the familiar (well, spirit animal, before anyone comes in to correct me), though. Largely to maximize compatibility with other archetypes, but also because it's just the animal companion that's out of place. Everything else is perfectly fine as-is.
Oh--you mean just the actual, physical animal, not the entire class feature?
You could pretty easily just give witches/shamans Alertness and a choice of bonuses without an animal. I don't really see any net loss there. Sure, they won't have a tiny animal to do stuff for them but, on the other hand, they won't have a tiny animal to get caught in a fireball and die and cost them no end of trouble to replace.
Without knowing anything about your setting, it's hard to know how to flavor the "new" animal-less feature, but I'm sure it's doable.
So just to be super clear you want to keep familiar like bonuses, like those you get from a bonded item, but specifically get rid of the small animal following them around? What is exactly the issue with this small animal friend so we know how we can go about removing them without intersecting without some other issue
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I don't really think there's a need to keep the familiar-like bonuses, specifically. Just to make sure there isn't a hole created in their absence. Anyway, as for the setting... Basically, there's a rather big gulf between druidic magic and other spellcasters. In my setting, druids are the only spellcasters that even remotely get their magic from nature. Witches get it from either powerful and ancient ghost-like spirits or from demons and other outsiders, and shamans either get it from ancestral spirits or elementals (which are strictly from the Elemental Planes, here and so aren't even going on the summon nature's ally lists). So having a pet - even an explicitly magical one - kinda messes with that feel. Sure, there are a number of options that Improved Familiar grants that would fit both, but especially given that this is an E8 campaign and all of the appropriate options require 7th level... I may as well just remove the feature entirely since that's almost all of their levels where they've got nothing, and still have to spend a feat to change that.
And while presumably I could homebrew some CR 1/6 elementals and outsiders... That just seems like trivializing them, especially when it would mean that practically every shaman and witch is followed by a little imp or fire elemental. Half the point of E6/8 is to make it so that even a typical fire elemental is awe-inspiring, but that would be severely undermined if just about every tribe's got a couple baby ones hopping about.
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The shaman also grants its familiar some minor bonuses based on its primary spirit. So, they’d need a tiny bit more than just a bonded object to make up for the loss. And both lose the ability to deliver their hexes through their familiar. So I would recommend some other tiny bonus for both of them, if losing their familiar.
The Gravewalker witch gets a spell poppet that is similar to a familiar without actually being one. It could work for you. Possessed doll made of dead parts would be great as a vessel for various disembodied outsiders. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/archetypes/paizo-witch-a rchetypes/gravewalker/
Sounds like an very intresting Setting.
But why get rid completely of the familiar. He could be a spiritual messenger from the Ancients.
There a two Template who can present this convincingly.
The First Template would be the Figment archetypes to make remove the physical part of the Familiar.
The Second archetype coud be Sage or Emissary.
The Emissary have the Problem that its eplaces deliver touch spells.
So you could remove either the Domain Influence from Emissary or the Manifest Dreams from the Figment.
I found 3 Shaman archetypes that trade out familiars for something else.
Name Keeper goes the bonded object route plus some other random goodies that are open to a various builds.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/shaman/archetypes/paizo-sham an-archetypes/name-keeper-shaman-archetype
Speaker of the Past swaps in some limited Oracle options. This seems to have a very specific idea in mind for it which may be limiting.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/shaman/archetypes/paizo-sham an-archetypes/speaker-for-the-past
True Silvered Throne goes the Spell book route. This may need some reflavoring but still allows for customization.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/shaman/archetypes/paizo-sham an-archetypes/true-silvered-throne-shaman-archetype
So would you be okay with a reskining of the familiars to be more in line with your setting? Something more spirit like or something of that nature.
Or would you rather a complete rework around them and edit them out of the class entirely?
Just looking for final clarification before I buckle down and try and figure this out
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Hmm... Name-Keeper and True Silvered Throne seem to replace Spirit Animal with a decidedly less good/flexible ability, and make up for it with the other abilities they grant. And, of course, as you say, the Speaker for the Past comes with a lot more stuff.
I am liking the idea of a bonded object, however. I've started working up a version of it as a possible replacement that I'm calling a Spirit Totem. Basically, the shaman's spirit resides inside it and thereby grants the powers it does. I like that this also allows for things like the shaman communing to prepare spells to remain. However, as was mentioned, I'm not sure it quite makes a replacement for things like the ability to deliver touch spells, and I'm having a lot of difficulty figuring out what to do with the traits that spirits grant to the spirit animal. Some of them have pretty direct parallels that could be applied (like Battle's +2 natural armor becoming, say, 5 extra hardness), but there are others - like Lore's +2 initiate, +4 Stealth - that just have absolutely no relevance, direct or analogous, to items...
The Gravewalker witch gets a spell poppet that is similar to a familiar without actually being one. It could work for you. Possessed doll made of dead parts would be great as a vessel for various disembodied outsiders. http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch/archetypes/paizo-witch-a rchetypes/gravewalker/
Linkified.
I found 3 Shaman archetypes that trade out familiars for something else.
Name Keeper goes the bonded object route plus some other random goodies that are open to a various builds.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/shaman/archetypes/paizo-sham an-archetypes/name-keeper-shaman-archetypeSpeaker of the Past swaps in some limited Oracle options. This seems to have a very specific idea in mind for it which may be limiting.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/shaman/archetypes/paizo-sham an-archetypes/speaker-for-the-pastTrue Silvered Throne goes the Spell book route. This may need some reflavoring but still allows for customization.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/hybrid-classes/shaman/archetypes/paizo-sham an-archetypes/true-silvered-throne-shaman-archetype
Linkified.
And now a couple of additions of my own:
The Shaman equivalent of Ley Line Guardian Witch (that loses the Familiar and becomes a spontaneous caster) is actually an Oracle archetype: Spirit Guide. Needs a lot of use of Extra Hex to get a decent collection of Hexes, though.
And if you want a 6/9 spellcasting Witch with decent martial capability, use Hexcrafter Magus -- doesn't get a Familiar unless you select the Familiar Magus Arcana. Can also be combined with a few other archetypes (off the top of my head, Spelldancer and Staff Magus, the former of which is an Elf-specific archetype) to get extra variety.
Thanks UnArcaneElection :)
You could consider making all familiars be tiny animated objects. The power level would be about the same, and they’d be very un-animal. The objects would be a little more sturdy, but wouldn’t grant the bonuses dependent on animal type, so it should all balance out.
And then your players could have fun picking their objects, from a creepy doll to a singing candelabra.
You could consider making all familiars be tiny animated objects. The power level would be about the same, and they’d be very un-animal. The objects would be a little more sturdy, but wouldn’t grant the bonuses dependent on animal type, so it should all balance out.
And then your players could have fun picking their objects, from a creepy doll to a singing candelabra.
Is it just me, or does this sound way cooler then normal familiars?
I was gonna suggest construct familiar, as there's already the Ioun Wyrd.
AAaaaa! How could I forget Cartomancer Witch?