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I was playing in PFS today in Emerald Spire, Splinterden.
I came to the table with this:
4th level
14 Fame
12 PP
71 gp
9 xp
I then bought something for < 150 gold by spending 1 PP at the opening of the game.
I managed to get killed about 70% through.
The group finished successfully.
I then earn this:
4 PP [and Fame]
3721 gp [3711 + 10 day job]
3 xp
Total before clearing conditions:
15 PP
3792 gp
The PFS Guild Guide says this below the PP expenditures chart:
"*You can buy raise dead using 16 PP, 5,450 gp, or 8 PP and 2,450 gp."
Since I have neither 16 PP nor 5,450 gp (and I don't want to force the table to pony up any gp), my only option is 8 PP and 2,450 gp.
That leaves me with 2 permanent negative levels and:
7 PP
1342 gp
I can then pay for NPC spellcasting at CL 7 * SL 4 * 10 gp = 280 gp for each Restoration to clear the negative levels (and times 2 that is 560 gp).
Final tally:
That leaves me cleared of my conditions and totals of:
5th level
18 Fame
7 PP
782 gp
12 xp
Is this all correct? Is there a better way of spending the combination of PP and gp to solve my conditions [e.g. paying 4 PP for restoration #1 and 280 in gp for restoration #2] that people recommend?
Had I not bought the item at the start for 1 PP, should I have just paid 16 PP for the raise dead, or is it better to spend gold to solve [part of] that condition?
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So, adding back 280 gp for one casting, and charging instead 4 PP, I think the totals are thus:
cleared of my conditions and totals of:
5th level
18 Fame
3 PP (the 7 PP - 4 PP for one casting)
62 gp (the 782 gp + 280 gp added back {for using PP on 1 cast} - 1000 gp)
12 xp
That's rather pathetic.
I suppose I should ask this as a rules question: If one is swallowed, can a channel affect that character? I have seen one GM rule this "yes", and another "no." It only makes situations like this playable vs. not.
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I suppose I should ask this as a rules question: If one is swallowed, can a channel affect that character? I have seen one GM rule this "yes", and another "no." It only makes situations like this playable vs. not.
Channel is a burst.
A burst spell affects whatever it catches in its area, including creatures that you can't see. It can't affect creatures with total cover from its point of origin (in other words, its effects don't extend around corners).
Being swallowed gives you total cover (there’s no direct line of effect without going through the swallowing creature). So you can’t be healed by a channel. On the other hand, you also can’t be harmed by a fireball cast in the area.
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Had I not bought the item at the start for 1 PP, should I have just paid 16 PP for the raise dead, or is it better to spend gold to solve [part of] that condition?
It’s a matter of personal preference. Some people like to keep 5 Fame available at all times just in case they need a body recovery. Or like to use their fame on item purchases (particularly wands). From a pure “value”standpoint (converting Prestige to gp) there’s a very slight edge in splitting the cost of raise dead between the two.
Speaking of “splitting,” if your party is willing, you can split the cost of raise dead. You have to use money though, players can’t combine Prestige.
Death is hard before level 6 or so.
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So, adding back 280 gp for one casting, and charging instead 4 PP, I think the totals are thus:
cleared of my conditions and totals of:
5th level
18 Fame
3 PP (the 7 PP - 4 PP for one casting)
62 gp (the 782 gp + 280 gp added back {for using PP on 1 cast} - 1000 gp)
12 xpThat's rather pathetic.
I suppose I should ask this as a rules question: If one is swallowed, can a channel affect that character? I have seen one GM rule this "yes", and another "no." It only makes situations like this playable vs. not.
what does this leave you in wealth in items though? your character is still quit rich.
no GM should allow a burst to effect a swallowed character. cant happen|
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I would not say I am rich at all.
I have a +1 Adaptive Composite Longbow that I spent nearly all my money on, and a MW Greatsword that I end up using a lot more. I have studded leather armor (and none of the monsters in the adventure had better), cold iron kukri, an alchemical silver heavy mace, a wand of CLW, and Cloak of Resist +1.
I spent my traits/feats on Will Saves. And my AC is terrible (I put my points into Str and used my Slayer feats to get PBS + Precise Shot, so Dex is poor).
I just read the description of the monster that did me in though, and I should have dropped my greatsword and pulled out my kukri with which to extract myself, since the monster has a puny AC and lousy hp on the stomach sack.
I guess that does bring up another good rules question though:
If you are blind, but you are swallowed whole, do you still suffer a 50% miss chance?
Anyhow: lesson learned is even with 44 hp, a level 2-4 isn't necessarily a romp. If you are built as an archer, stay out of melee against the tough monsters. We had other melee fighters, but we just weren't hitting it.
We also spent the $50 at the store for our table, to allow me to survive in the additional negatives by treating my Con as 10 higher, but I should have just saved the option and used it to reduce my eventual Restoration cost by 2 PP.
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Being swallowed gives you total cover (there’s no direct line of effect without going through the swallowing creature). So you can’t be healed by a channel. On the other hand, you also can’t be harmed by a fireball cast in the area.
That may be the point of table variation. Creatures don't normally block line of effect, and if a channel can heal a busted kidney it might be able to heal someone inside a busted kidney.
I know there's a plant that swallows you and it specifies that it blocks line of effect, but it doesn't seem to be universal for swallow whole (but it does by and large make sense)
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Back to my original questions on cost, a Google search found me an article from Alex Augunas where he agrees that this particular range of experience levels can be hard to come back from a death, and that paying PP is economically inefficient compared to the gp prices.
http://knowdirectionpodcast.com/2015/04/death-and-pp-taxes/
My particular position:
I had to use nearly all my gold (down to 62 gp left) and all my PP (down to 3 PP left) to come back (including clearing the 2 negative levels). So, I have the gear I started 4th with, and get to level up to 5th.
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My particular position:
I had to use nearly all my gold (down to 62 gp left) and all my PP (down to 3 PP left) to come back (including clearing the 2 negative levels). So, I have the gear I started 4th with, and get to level up to 5th.
Didn't your party chip in any?
(shadow lodge for life)
You don't need to clear negative levels right away (though its not the worst idea unless you know you'll be with a high level cleric on a mission where you travel for a few days)
If you take a look at the wealth by level chart you'll notice that its not exactly linear. Being 5k gold down is pretty big at level 5, but not really noticable at level 11.
Venture-Agent, Minnesota
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Two things:
I feel your pain! When my boyfriend’s Cleric, Omar died at level three, he and I liquedated everything to bring him back. After all, my character, Zahra, was his wife and declared before the party, “NO! He saved you all, and you talk of petty coin when I ask you to save him in return? He is my light, my life, and by Shelyn he will not die TODAY.”
The rest of the party chipped in, though one said, “If you ask me, this is the wrong decision. Just make another toon. So you’ll get this one back but without cash, you’d have been better off dead. You’ll see.”
The thing was, neither Bret nor I felt that Omar was replaceable. We had loved these pair of characters, and the zest with which they approached life. So we raised Omar from the dead, and then had to figure out what to do.
Our strategy? First, GM through an entire level in order to get back key equipment without risking character death again. Then to go through the list of things and figure out what we could and could not do without. I swear that we used Mage Armor and Shield of Faith on Omar in lieu of armor for a couple games before we could afford real armor for him again.
During levels 4-6, we did feel like we were a bit behind everyone else, and we did a mix of GMing and canny playing throughout that vulnerable time period.
The Wolf is Right. Remember what BNW said about wealth by level! By level seven, we felt like we entirely caught up. We’re level 11.2, one XP from being able to go through Eyes of the Ten.
When asked by our Venture Captain Keith which characters we wanted to bring to Eyes of the Ten, we knew. Omar and Zahra are Pathfinder’s Pathfinders. A fantastic, well-prepared support team that has saved the lives of other Pathfinders (including later the PC who had warned us that we would regret bringing Omar back) countless times. We bring the buffs and make the rest of our party feel like heroes.
Was it worth it bringing Omar back? Yes, yes, yes!
And perhaps part of the reason that we loved these characters so much was that we struggled to keep them. When you work hard for something, you treasure it all the more.
I do recommend GMing for a level to help your character recover. And who knows? You may find that you love GMing as much as I do. The first three games that I did as a GM were during this period, and I discovered that I was hooked.
Good luck helping your character get back on his feet.
Wishing you the best,
Hmm
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Well, initially I was just worried that with only 12 PP at the start of the day, and spending another 1 PP to get an item of 100 gp, I stupidly only had 11 PP. With the successful completion of the module's level for +4 PP, that only gets me to 15 PP, and I thought the character was **dead-dead** since I always hear only about 16 PP to get raised. I didn't want the table to know, because my best friend had basically triggered this monster to appear by being foolish, and I had been a bit of an annoyance at the table earlier. Also, people had already spent real money to get our table to $50 at the store so my Con score would be treated as 10 higher under the retail support program.
But "*You can buy raise dead using ... 8 PP and 2,450 gp" solved all that.
I may indeed try to GM some games soon enough. That would definitely help this character, my -2. My -1 is doing alright, so that all works out.
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...it does merit noting that GMing is not always the be-all and end-all, and there are the potential of tables where one has to 'play down' which can adversely impact one's financial capabilities.
...particularly if the teams they have been assigned to have been either sub-par or were suffering the costs of 'death tax' themselves.
The system continues to improve, but it'd be nice to see an expanded list for different levels of PP commitment and/or alternative methods (perhaps a discount for 'forgoing Day Job' for 'x' sessions to pay off the debt?)
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So this might be helpful to you, but the retail boon the extended con is a FREE bonus for it, then you choose an active bonus, healing, reduced PP cost, or bonus on day job.
So with 50 you'd get the empowered cheaper PP costs in addition to the death con that comes free.
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So, under the Pathfinder Society Retail Incentive Program, for the $50 to get the empowered benefit, I could get the Raise Dead for 6 PP (instead of 8) and 2,450 gold:
http://paizo.com/paizo/blog/v5748dyo5lj4b&page=2?Pathfinder-Society-Ret ail-Incentive-Program
My -2 would keep my 2 negative levels, and then in each of my next 2 sessions, get one restoration for 2 PP less each time. My -1 character has a Personal Physician boon (and spent 4 PP on it, with 25 Fame), so the level-restoring restoration would only cost her 1 PP under the Pathfinder Society Retail Incentive Program.
For sure, I need to see if my GM can write me up a new sheet for that. He had written that I spent 16 PP, but now it looks like I may want to just spend 6.
This would save me 6 PP overall on this -2 character (assuming I can find enough at the store that spend $50 per week on for 2 weeks, and survive with the negative levels), and mitigates some risk of death on my -1 going forward.
Thanks Thomas!