Crowdsource: Wizard spells that are also *lower level* bard / cleric / druid spells


Advice


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Background: the Spell Sage is a wizard archetype that gets to use bard, cleric and druid spells (with some restrictions, but never mind that now). So, I'm looking for wizard spells that are on the bard, cleric and/or druid lists, but that are *lower level* on those lists than on the wizard list.

For example: Scrying is a 4th level wizard spell. But it's also a bard spell, and for a bard it's only a 3rd level spell. So, a Spell Sage could cast this spell at 5th level instead of waiting until 7th. Similarly, Commune With Birds is a 2nd level spell for wizards, but only a 1st level spell for druids.

Other examples? Anyone?

Doug


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Heroism is bard 2, wiz 3


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Animate dead: Wiz 4 Clr 3
Lesser animate dead: Wiz 3 Clr 2


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Enter Image: Wiz 3, Bard 2
Remove Curse: Wiz 4, Cleric 3
Tongues: Wiz 3, Bard 2.

Doug M.


Stone Shape is Clr 3, Wiz 4


Suggestion is Bard 2.

I feel like there’s a FAQ that if it doesn’t outright prevent this at least strongly suggests that would be the ruling if it ever got FAQ’d on this particular point.


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Plane shift is Clr 5, Wiz 7
Irresistible dance is Bard 6, Wiz 8
Euphoric tranquility is Bard 6, Wiz 8


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Yellow Sign and Overwhelming Presence are Wiz 9, Bard 6.
Euphoric Tranquility, Mass Charm Monster, Irresistible Dance, and Greater Shout are Wiz 8, Bard 6.
Greater Scrying, Project Image, and Waves of Ecstasy are Wiz 7, Bard 6.
Joyful Rapture, Ki Shout, and Resonating Word are Wiz 7, Bard 5.
Unwilling Shield, Greater Dispel Magic, Greater Heroism, Mass Suggestion, Mislead, Shadow Walk, and Vengeful Outrage are Wiz 6, Bard 5.
Legend Lore, Envious Urge, Serenity, and Utter Contempt are Wiz 6, Bard 4.
Feast on Fear, Truespeak, Treasure Stitching, Break Enchantment, Dominate Person, Hold Monster, Sonic Thrust, Wall of Sound and Echolocation are Wiz 5, Bard 4.
Sequester Thoughts, Curse of Disgust, and Smug Narcissism are Wiz 5, Bard 3.
Triggered Suggestion, Nixie's Lure, Apparent Treachery, Remove Curse, Scrying, Charm Monster, Confusion, Crushing Despair, Lesser Geas, Fear, Communal Tongues, Control Summoned Creature, Malicious Spite, Overwhelming Grief and Terrible Remorse are Wiz 4, Bard 3.
Mindlocked Messenger, Blood Biography, Enter Image, Versatile Weapon, Cauterizing Weapon, Tongues, Heroism, Hold Person, Rage, Suggestion, Communal Share Language, Reckless Infatuation, Unadulterated Loathing and Distracting Cacophany are Wiz 3, Bard 2.
Hideous Laughter, Jitterbugs, Share Language, Obscure Object, Magic Mouth, Adoration and Unnatural Lust are Wiz 2, Bard 1.

Spell Sage looks like a good archetype for a wizard who wants to specialize in enchantments or sonic blasts. Overwhelming Presence looks like a pretty fun spell to cast at level 11, even if it costs two level 6 slots.


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Refuge is Wiz 9, Cleric 7.
Greater Bestow Curse is Wiz 8, Cleric 7.
Mass Planar Adaptation, Banishment, Epidemic, and Plague Storm are Wiz 7, Cleric 6.
Plane Shift is Wiz 7, Cleric 5.
True Seeing, Greater Contagion, and Major Curse are Wiz 6, Cleric 5.
Control Water is Wiz 6, Druid/Cleric 4.
Planar Adaptation, Dismissal, Sending, Summoner Conduit, Soothe Construct, and Plague Carrier are Wiz 5, Cleric 4.
Aggravate Affliction, Animate Dead, Bestow Curse, Contagion, and Stone Shape are Wiz 4, Cleric 3.
Unliving Rage, Ancestral Regression, Cleromancy, Gentle Repose, and Lesser Animate Dead are Wiz 3, Cleric 2.


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The Spells database on d20PFSRD can allow you to download an excel or csv file. With filtering it’s possible to generate the list of alternative class spell levels for any given wizard spell level.

Example:
Filter 1 Spell level CONTAINS Wizard/Sorcerer 2
Add a column to your file to ID those rows (enter W/S 2 as the identifier)
Filter on that row so you only see W/S 2
Then change the Spell level column filter to CONTAINS Bard 1
Now you can see all W/S 2 spells where they are also Bd 1

You can get more elaborate but that’s the quickest method to get all the relevant spells IDed.

The Exchange

Keep Calm and Carrion wrote:
Overwhelming Presence looks like a pretty fun spell to cast at level 11, even if it costs two level 6 slots.

It does but the problem with this (and any other round/level spells) is the casting time. For overwhelming presence it would take 6 full rounds to cast.

Now, what you can do is tie these short-duration spells to a contingency. (And trigger it by saying "I'm awesome!" or something similar). The spell sage can boost his CL by 4 a few times a day. So at level 11, that would make CL15. Just need to eke out 3 more CL via feats and magic items to be able to tie overwheming presence to contingency.


Keep Calm and Carrion, your list is amazing. This gives me a LOT to work with. Thank you!

Belafon, excellent point about Contingency.

Doug M.


Contingency only can effect you. Overwhelming Presence targets others.


Alaznist's Jinx seems to be 4th level for Bards, 6th for Clerics and Wizards.


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Using RegUS PatOff's method, I get the following list of spells from the D20PFSRD Database...

Spoiler:

Level 2 Sorc/Wiz
Adoration
Assumed Likeness
Carrion Compass
Commune With Birds
Compel Tongue
Compulsive Liar
Hideous Laughter
Intensify Psyche
Jitterbugs
Know Peerage
Magic Mouth
Obscure Object
Secret Sign
Secret Speech
Share Language
Snow Shape
Tears To Wine
Touch Of Bloodletting
Twisted Futures
Unnatural Lust

Level 3 Sorc/Wiz
Ancestral Regression
Animate Dead, Lesser
Aversion
Babble
Blood Biography
Blood Rage
Burdened Thoughts
Campfire Wall
Catatonia
Cauterizing Weapon
Charitable Impulse
Cleromancy
Contagious Zeal
Control Vermin
Daggermark's Exchange
Deathwine
Deflect Blame
Detect Desires
Display Aversion
Distracting Cacophony
Dragon Turtle Shell
Enter Image
First World Revisions
Gentle Repose
Golden Guise
Heroism
Hold Fey
Hold Person
Hydrophobia
Insect Scouts
Kalistocrat's Nightmare
Matchmaker
Mindlocked Messenger
Necromantic Burden
Necrostasis
Oneiric Horror
Open Book
Outbreak
Perfect Placement
Pugwampi's Grace
Puzzle Box
Rage
Recharge
Reckless Infatuation
Reveal Mirage
Revelation
Share Glory
Share Language, Communal
Slave To Sin
Suggestion
Swipe
Tongues
Unadulterated Loathing
Unliving Rage
Urban Step
Versatile Weapon
Voluminous Vocabulary

Level 4 Sorc/Wiz
Aggravate Affliction
Agonize
Akashic Communion
Animal Aspect, Greater
Animate Dead
Apparent Treachery
Aura Of The Unremarkable
Bestow Curse
Bit Of Luck
Bite the Hand
Charm Monster
Claim Identity
Confusion
Contagion
Control Summoned Creature
Crushing Despair
Curse Of Befouled Fortune
Cursed Treasure
Demanding Message
Dreadscape
Dream Shield
Enticing Adulation
Fear
Fire Trap
Fleeting Memory
Flesh Puppet
Geas, Lesser
Geomessage
Hollow Heroism
Hypercognition
Ignoble Form
Insect Spies
Instant Fake
Inveigle Person
Irregular Size
Liquefy
Mad Sultan's Melody
Magic Aura, Greater
Malicious Spite
Meticulous Match
Mydriatic Spontaneity
Nixie's Lure
Overwhelming Grief
Probe History
Project Weakness
Rags To Riches
Remove Curse
Sadomasochism
Sand Table
Scrying
Seeds Of Influence
Skeleton Crew
Soul Vault
Stone Shape
Terrible Remorse
Tongues, Communal
Trade Items
Triggered Suggestion
Vermin Shape I

Level 5 Sorc/Wiz
Absorb Toxicity
Alter River
Apathy
Army Across Time
Black Spot
Blight
Break Enchantment
Calm Air
Caustic Blood
Charm Person, Mass
Compel Tongue, Mass
Conditional Curse
Contagious Suggestion
Curse Of Disgust
Devil Snare
Dismissal
Dominate Person
Dungeonsight
Echolocation
False Future
Feast On Fear
Flash Forward
Flesh Puppet Horde
Flexile Curse
Foretell Failure
Geyser
Gift Of The Deep
Glimpse Of Truth
Globe Of Tranquil Water
Grand Destiny
Hold Monster
Illusory Hoard
Lend Path
Life Bubble
Oneiric Horror, Greater
Passing Fancy, Mass
Pessimism
Plague Carrier
Planar Adaptation
Planetary Adaptation
Red Hand Of The Killer
Rune Of Ruin
Seek Shelter
Sending
Sequester Thoughts
Sleepwalking Suggestion
Smug Narcissism
Sonic Thrust
Soothe Construct
Strip Scales
Summoner Conduit
Torpid Reanimation
Transplant Visage
Treasure Stitching
Truespeak
Unseen Crew
Vermin Shape II
Wall of Sound

Level 6 Sorc/Wiz
Alaznist's Jinx
Claim Identity, Greater
Cloak of Dreams
Contagion, Greater
Control Water
Curse, Major
Destroy Robot
Dispel Magic, Greater
Dream Reality
Envious Urge
Harrowing, Greater
Heroism, Greater
Janni's Jaunt
Legend Lore
Mage's Decree
Mislead
Oasis
Phobia
Sabotage Construct
Serenity
Shadow Endurance
Shadow Walk
Suggestion, Mass
True Seeing
Undeath Ward
Unwilling Shield
Utter Contempt
Vengeful Outrage
Wall Of Silver

Level 7 Sorc/Wiz
Antitech Field
Archon's Trumpet
Artificer's Curse
Banishment
Bite the Hand, Mass
Crime Wave
Demanding Message, Mass
Dream Council
Epidemic
False Vision, Greater
Hollow Heroism, Greater
Insect Spies, Greater
Inveigle Monster
Joyful Rapture
Ki Shout
Lost Legacy
Mydriatic Spontaneity, Mass
Perceive Betrayal
Plague Bearer
Plague Storm
Planar Adaptation, Mass
Plane Shift
Planetary Adaptation, Mass
Pox Of Rumors
Project Image
Resonating Word
Scrying, Greater
Seeds Of Influence, Greater
Subjective Reality
Terraform
Waves of Ecstasy

Level 8 Sorc/Wiz
Bestow Curse, Greater
Charm Monster, Mass
Euphoric Tranquility
Fey Gate
Fleeting Memory, Mass
Irresistible Dance
Life Of Crime
Shout, Greater
Symbol Of Debauchery

Level 9 Sorc/Wiz
Impenetrable Veil
Overwhelming Presence
Refuge
Yellow Sign

The Exchange

Xenocrat wrote:
Contingency only can effect you. Overwhelming Presence targets others.

Sigh. You are correct. I should have reread overwhelming presence. I incorrectly remembered it as acting like elemental aura. (Personal spell that has an ongoing effect on those around you.)

Edit: well, you technically could target yourself with overwhelming presence. It's just a really bad idea.


Wow. Thank you, dysartes! Now I just need to note what level they are when you cast them. You can cast Overwhelming Presence with two 6th level slots, after all. (For that matter, you could use a metamagic rod to expand or extend it, which shouldn't normally be possible.)

Belafon, the main use of Contingency by Spell Sages in my (limited) experience is to cast Breath of Life. It won't save you from being dropped into a volcano, but in most situations it's pretty much an extra life.

Part 1 of the Guide is up, BTW. (Not the spells. That will take a while.) Your comments will be very welcome.

Doug M.

The Exchange

Douglas Muir 406 wrote:
Belafon, the main use of Contingency by Spell Sages in my (limited) experience is to cast Breath of Life. It won't save you from being dropped into a volcano, but in most situations it's pretty much an extra life.

Cleanse is another popular choice, with a trigger of "when I fall below X hit points or am affected by a condition cleanse can remove.

(I used to play a cleric who did something similar and got a few wizard spells on his cleric spell list.)


I did consider including that info in the output, Douglas, but it would've taken far more time to pull together ;)


Life Bubble is druid 4, wizard 5.

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