This is a duplicate thread. I accidentally sought help in the wrong advice section creating the original thread here: http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2upng?-Martial-Speaker-for-the-past-Shaman-with - I'm unaware of how to delete threads here, and grant permission to any admin to delete the formerly mentioned thread. I'm reposting the thread here, hoping it gains more traction
I'm making a GMPC for an upcoming campaign to round out a party as the 4th pc. I'm planning on using him as an expository and utility character in the beginning. My thoughts crossed making a flavourful Shoanti Human Shaman. As I've served as the party's buff/debuff witch in a previous campaign, I'm wanting to change things up and have a more diverse role with different gimmicks. Thus the Speaker for the past archetype caught my eye.
The idea is to make a human shoanti shaman that could partake in melee, run some buffs and heal adequately and offer some utility spells. Already it looks like I'm spreading the butter a bit thin on the bread, but from my impressions of the shaman, this seems like it could be viable. As stated earlier, I am one for flavour. He doesn't need to be optimized (I might even spend some feats for flavour), though I wouldn't mind some formidability. Thus I am making this thread to ensure it's not a build that would come completely apart later in the games.
NG Human (shoanti) Speaker of the past/Monk 1 (martial artist)
Ancestral revelations
Restoration Spirit (Variant of life spirit) (Or poooossibly battle spirit...)
Stats: (15 point buy)
Str: 12 Dex: 12 Con: 12 Int: 13 Wis: 16 (+2 =18) Cha: 7
I've also heard suggestions of making a dex build with a keen weapon, thus I could go for a different variation, say..
Str: 8 Dex: 14 Con: 13 Int: 13 Wis: 16 (+2=18), Cha: 7
It seemed reasonable to keep some defensive stats. Int would help with library function, as the Speaker of the past archetype gains a few interesting class skills as well as open up for combat expertise and feats that it allows. Wis ensures a heal check and a healthy access to aiding spells. I figured the melee potential could be buffed with divine spells such as bull's strength.
The reason for the monk level: Wis to AC to name one. Also this; The ancestral revelations grant you a summon of an ancestral Simple or Martial Weapon that will gradually advance in enhancements from masterwork to +1 and onwards. I figured I could fluff in a monk weapon in this case such as a quarter staff, a bow (ranged simple/martial) or a temple sword or something else. If I use the monk bonus feat to gain Ascetic style, I'll be able to deliver unarmed strikes with said weapon, which will open up for Hex strike. As this weapon would be summoned, I could do so after casting the initial buffs and spells at the beginning of combat.
In short: Martial speaker of the past using ancestral revelation monk weapon with hex strike. I'm not completely sold on Hex strike, but I saw it as one way to utilize the monk level. Ability scores and choice of spirit is also up for discussion, but I am adamant that I'd like to find a way to build a melee Shaman with the mentioned archetype.
That's my current idea, though I have no idea how to build this. From the looks of it, this already looks fairly feat-intensive which might cause me to forsake the previously mentioned potential flavour feats. Another con is that it might take a few levels in order to become functional.
In a positive light, this is still a GMPC, mainly there for support and exposition initially, which might excuse why I would keep him in the background until he advances.
To reiterate; I'm not expecting to be a front-line melee fighter, but rather a mix of support/side-line melee such as a bard could do. The primal/ancestral/nature theme of the Shaman was alluring.
The rest of the party is fairly melee centric: One Orc Fighter/Barbarian, one Elf Knight and possibly one Investigator.
Upon closer readings, it might appear that the spirit abilities require some level of cha, which might mean that I have to rethink my ability scores. Then again, the only ability I'm interested in would be the bane ability.
NG Shoanti Human Speaker of the past/U-Monk 1
Battle Spirit: Enlarge person (1st), fog cloud (2nd), magic vestment (3rd), wall of fire (4th), righteous might (5th), mass bull’s strength (6th), control weather (7th), earthquake (8th), storm of vengeance (9th).
lvl 1 Shaman: Battle Spirit (+1ab/dmg for party), Control/heal-spells, Feat: Weapon Focus/Finesse/Combat Reflexes???, Bonus Feat: ???
lvl 2 U-Monk: Wis AC, IUS, Bonus: Ascetic Style
lvl 3 Shaman: Hex: Evil Eye, Feat: Hex Strike
lvl 4 Shaman: Second level spells
lvl 5 Shaman: Mwk Ancestral Weapon: Simple/Martial/Monk weapon: ??? (+1 ehancement at 8th), Hex: Battle Master/Spirit Shield?
lvl 6 Shaman: Third level spells
lvl 7 Shaman: Blood of Heroes: +2 ab/dmg/vs. fear, Feat: ???
lvl 8 Shaman: 4th level spells, +1 enhancement on ancestral weapon (Bane?)
lvl 9 Shaman: Battle spirit +2, Bane on weapon (+4d6)/3 + cha rounds, BM: Weapon Specialization/SPSH: +6 AC, Feat: ???
lvl 10 Shaman: 5th level spells
lvl 11 Shaman: Hex: ???, Feat: ???
lvl 12 Shaman: 6th level spells, Ghost touch on ancestral weapon
lvl 13 Shaman: Spirit of the Warrior revelation (+4 Str, Dex, Con, + Improved Critical, + Full BAB) for 6 rounds.
These are my thoughts for a build thus far. There might be a few tricks to use for a proper melee shaman that I haven't thought of. There are plenty of Feat and Hex options I don't know what to do with for instance.
At the moment, the build seems like far too much of a slow growth and I'll need to invest some time into properly understanding the potential for divine spell self-buffs/battle control possibilities in order to not just become completely useless.
Fluff wise, I figured he could be something of a support NPC at the beginning of the story, aiding the party with buffs and control spells gradually rising to the ranks of a close combatant, though it might be an emphasis on gradual.
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Unmonk is the better option of the 2. Dex works with an agile amulet of might fists. But does take an extra feat.
- Spirit shield is great for this build, combine it with barkskin.
- Consider a dual talented human
- Consider hex strike.
- Don't forget you get access to heroism.
- Frostbite can crank your damage to very respectable levels.
- Use your FCB do grab spells like divine favor from the cleric list.
- Great magic weapon will help keep your costing in check and your accuracy competitive.
- Evil eye + soothsayer is my top hex choice for the build even on a failed save the hex should be in place on your next turn and you don't have to lose your move action to chanting, which is more important for a melee shaman.
- Enforcer + Hexstrike + Cruel weapon + Rime Frostbite makes you a debuff master. (shaken, evil eye, sicken, entangled, fatigued)
Thank you! Those are some great options to consider. Incidentally, do you have any tips regarding ability scores and choice of spirit and revelations?
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You might want to consider the Fortune/Chant hex combination. It does make you pretty immobile while using it (you're using you move action to Chant every round), but it definitely fits the support theme.
If you're definite on the monk dip, the Spirit Armor revelation seems like a no-brainer. Temporal Celerity and Speed or Slow Time would be my other recommendations.
I have tended to go with 8 charisma for my Shamans, and take max ranks in Diplomacy (which is a class skill).
Noted. But wouldn't the low charisma penalize the use of battle spirit magic? Or are those out of the question?
Any thoughts on the use of the ancestral weapon revelation as use for hex strike? Or was it implied that I should go for the monks unarmed strike while using touch spells. If I am correct, the monk's unarmed strike counts as a light weapon, which could make it serve as an ancestral weapon to nab those bonuses, even if it sounds odd.
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PCScipio has it right for revelations.
Spirit of the Warrior + Bane at high levels is amazing.
If you want fortune also consider using it with soothsayer. Hit the whole team with fortune that all kick in for their initiative roll or their first attack.
For stats your Dex set looks best to me.
Str: 8 Dex: 14 + 2 (dual talented) Con: 14 Int: 11 Wis: 16 (+2=18), Cha: 7
Considering you don't wear armor or have to carry a weapon you could adjust them further.
Str: 7 Dex: 15 + 2 (dual talented) Con: 14 Int: 11 Wis: 16 (+2=18), Cha: 7
You have 23lb to work with. Monk robes are 2 pounds, Handy haversack is 5, a rod is 5, Headband is 1, Belt is 1, Cloak 1, most boots are 1, body slot 1-5, head slot 0-3. That's 24 but if you use a drop the rod your fine or if you're careful about the body and head slot items.
This is a hard build on a 15 point buy. Don't feel obligated to dump strength to 7 but it can be done if you are careful.
Thank you to the both of you! These are all great tips which makes me start to rethink a few of my initial ideas. I still have a few questions just to make sure I've understood you correctly, so I'll try to round them up
1) The primary weapon for attacking would be unarmed strike, which only by definition actually qualifies for the ancestral weapon revelation even if it sounds odd. Or should a different weapon be used?
2) Weapon Finesse would probably be a mandatory first feat?
3) If Enforcer is to be used, what could offset the low cha for intimidate checks?
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3) Indimidating Prowess, if you have high strength, but you're probably already short on feats.
Edit: The Shaman in general, and the Speaker for the Past in particular, has lots of cool options, but is very feat starved. You have to accept that you're just not going to be able to do everything. The Shaman is also a very MAD class, so you have to decide what it is you really want to do, and what you can live without (and a 15 point buy makes it even harder).
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666benders build uses more feats to get wisdom to hit. If the guided property is available the build used 2 feats and +1 on the amulet/weapon to do one more attack and damage than the dex build, which is a decent trade when you consider not having to invest money in boosting a second stat, and potentially having a better stat array. You do have to give up extra aoo, weapon spec and bane which is a huge loss.
Remember if you do want to hex strike you have to invest in your UAS it does not work with a weapon.
If you want to flurry with a weapon in this case just pick a temple sword or Sansetsukon. Better yet versatile design will allow your to make any weapon a monk weapon for 500gp.
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So for a Wis focused build have you consider grabbling the Prehensile Hair hex? Maybe grab weapon focus plus feral combat training so you can flurry with your hair. Would do a Dex/Wis build for sure, for the defensive aspect. Unmonk definitely a better choice. If you go something like:
Keep in mind the low charisma will hit some of your abilities as a Shaman, so pick carefully.
As you level up make sure you have barkskin, use the armor revelation and maybe get umd for some other buffs.
I have build, but not played, a build similar to this using a Vanara, small size variant. That was Unmonk 1, Shaman X. Ran with a very high wisdom and grabbed hexes plus the other feats. Basically it was primarily a debuffer (hexes), decent buffer (spells) occasional melee (prehensile hair getting Wis as Str plus flurry plus greater magic weapon on hair) grab an improved familiar to do various buffs like wands of bless weapon, magic fang etc..