Hi guys, it's like 2 years i didn't play pathfinder, but now i'm back. I read there are a lot of new stuffs for Fighter( starting from advanced weapon/armor training), so what are the new builds for the fighter? I remember the trip one with a reach weapon was one of the best one, but now, for exemple, i think dirty trick is a better way.
Some advices please.
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Not really new builds, more like more options.
Essentially at level 5, you should get advanced weapon training feat or advanced armor training feat, and pick the ability that complement your fighter build.
You can never go wrong with the Warrior Spirit ability...it is perfect for any fighter build.
If you don't pick up the feat for whatever reason, you still get access to these options at level 9.
The combat feat barroom brawler gives an ability similar to martial flexibility class ability of the brawler to get temporary feats, giving lots of options. The advanced weapon training abundant tactics lets you use barroom brawler more times per day, equal to the fighters weapon training bonus.
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The combat feat barroom brawler gives an ability similar to martial flexibility class ability of the brawler to get temporary feats, giving lots of options. The advanced weapon training abundant tactics lets you use barroom brawler more times per day, equal to the fighters weapon training bonus.
this seems really pretty solid, so Barrom Brawler is a must have feat at 4th level.
The combat feat barroom brawler gives an ability similar to martial flexibility class ability of the brawler to get temporary feats, giving lots of options. The advanced weapon training abundant tactics lets you use barroom brawler more times per day, equal to the fighters weapon training bonus.this seems really pretty solid, so Barrom Brawler is a must have feat at 4th level.
I think it's a pretty bad deal. once a day you can spend a move action to get a feat for 1 minute. Which feats are you thinking of flexing in once a day that is better than having 1 feat all the time?
I think it's a pretty bad deal. once a day you can spend a move action to get a feat for 1 minute. Which feats are you thinking of flexing in once a day that is better than having 1 feat all the time?
barroom brawler + abudant tactcics + stamina points( that ever DMs out there must leave to their fighters to use)
I think it's a pretty bad deal. once a day you can spend a move action to get a feat for 1 minute. Which feats are you thinking of flexing in once a day that is better than having 1 feat all the time?The combat feat barroom brawler gives an ability similar to martial flexibility class ability of the brawler to get temporary feats, giving lots of options. The advanced weapon training abundant tactics lets you use barroom brawler more times per day, equal to the fighters weapon training bonus.this seems really pretty solid, so Barrom Brawler is a must have feat at 4th level.
At 5th level it's once/day + training bonus.
That is minutes/day of having the exact feat you need at any given point in time.
I think it's a pretty bad deal. once a day you can spend a move action to get a feat for 1 minute. Which feats are you thinking of flexing in once a day that is better than having 1 feat all the time?The combat feat barroom brawler gives an ability similar to martial flexibility class ability of the brawler to get temporary feats, giving lots of options. The advanced weapon training abundant tactics lets you use barroom brawler more times per day, equal to the fighters weapon training bonus.this seems really pretty solid, so Barrom Brawler is a must have feat at 4th level.At 5th level it's once/day + training bonus.
That is minutes/day of having the exact feat you need at any given point in time.
and which feats are worth flexing into to be "the exact feat you need?" Like I personally see very little value in it since the feats you can get from it is usually just a feat you'd have taken in it's place.
I think it's a pretty bad deal. once a day you can spend a move action to get a feat for 1 minute. Which feats are you thinking of flexing in once a day that is better than having 1 feat all the time?The combat feat barroom brawler gives an ability similar to martial flexibility class ability of the brawler to get temporary feats, giving lots of options. The advanced weapon training abundant tactics lets you use barroom brawler more times per day, equal to the fighters weapon training bonus.this seems really pretty solid, so Barrom Brawler is a must have feat at 4th level.
Spend 5 stamina and it's a swift action. Spending a swift action to get Seething Hatred (favoured enemy) Vs your target seems a good deal. Also all those random situational feats are now available at the drop of a hat.
and which feats are worth flexing into to be "the exact feat you need?" Like I personally see very little value in it since the feats you can get from it is usually just a feat you'd have taken in it's place.I think it's a pretty bad deal. once a day you can spend a move action to get a feat for 1 minute. Which feats are you thinking of flexing in once a day that is better than having 1 feat all the time?The combat feat barroom brawler gives an ability similar to martial flexibility class ability of the brawler to get temporary feats, giving lots of options. The advanced weapon training abundant tactics lets you use barroom brawler more times per day, equal to the fighters weapon training bonus.this seems really pretty solid, so Barrom Brawler is a must have feat at 4th level.At 5th level it's once/day + training bonus.
That is minutes/day of having the exact feat you need at any given point in time.
Flying opponent? I have smash-from-the-air
Need DD? I have Item mastery: teleportationReflex saves just became important? I get to add my weapon training bonus
Need additional skills for just a minute? Max ranks
Fighting multiple small opponents? Cleave
Need a combat maneuver? I have them all
Warrior Spirit? I have it when I want it.
The power of Schrodinger's fighter is in always having access to the exact ability needed whenever it is needed.
There's a guide for getting magic item mastery feats, which have many useful effects: Cartmanbeck's Guide.
so you take 2 feats, barroom brawler and abundant tactics via a feat or AWT which is worth a feat.
Flying opponent? potion of fly if no other flight available. Plus being able to attack some ranged attacks doesn't really do much to counter flying enemies.
need DD? When do you ever NEED DD? plus if you feel you need it then take it as one of your two feats.
Reflex saves just became important? How do reflex saves suddenly become important before it's too late? Also this is good to just have anyways to always have it before it's too late.
Need skills? Bro, there's someone in the party better at skills than you or a cheap scroll if there's not. no need to waste feats to be kinda okay at a skill for a minute, plus lots of skills take a minute or more to do, so like if you find a trap then that uses up your entire use, need to talk with someone, an entire use. Sure this is a neat trick, but not really that useful for you.
Fighting multiple small opponents? full attack, with haste it's even better. Them being small means your second attack should be likely to hit, and now you don't have an AC penalty and don't need to waste the feat cause they still never stand in the correct position!
Need a combat maneuver? No you don't have them all unless you've taken prerequisite feats letting you qualify, which is another feat, at least, down the drain for this idea. And when do you need a maneuver? unless that is your main plan it's not really a good idea to try maneuvers, it takes more than just a feat or two to make them work.
Warrior Spirit? if you want it you have it already.
The perceived power is having lots of options, but since most of the time those options aren't good options for a party and that if you don't go this route you have the few decent options all the time it's not really that useful.
So sure, if you like it go for it, I'm still unconvinced that it's worth it, especially when needing to give up an AWT to leave open for it.
and which feats are worth flexing into to be "the exact feat you need?" Like I personally see very little value in it since the feats you can get from it is usually just a feat you'd have taken in it's place.I think it's a pretty bad deal. once a day you can spend a move action to get a feat for 1 minute. Which feats are you thinking of flexing in once a day that is better than having 1 feat all the time?The combat feat barroom brawler gives an ability similar to martial flexibility class ability of the brawler to get temporary feats, giving lots of options. The advanced weapon training abundant tactics lets you use barroom brawler more times per day, equal to the fighters weapon training bonus.this seems really pretty solid, so Barrom Brawler is a must have feat at 4th level.At 5th level it's once/day + training bonus.
That is minutes/day of having the exact feat you need at any given point in time.
Well, there’s feats in the Haunted Heroes Handbook that let you beat up entities that have possessed your allies and allow you to hurt incorporeal creatures with non magical weapons. There’s a feat that lets mundane fight swarms more effectively. And getting combat maneuvers only when they’re useful is a nice trick.
Well, there’s feats in the Haunted Heroes Handbook that let you beat up entities that have possessed your allies and allow you to hurt incorporeal creatures with non magical weapons. There’s a feat that lets mundane fight swarms more effectively. And getting combat maneuvers only when they’re useful is a nice trick.
assuming that those feats don't have any or at least not hard to mean requirements then that sounds like something worth flexing into, dealing with haunts and possession.
Unless damaging incorporeal is better than magic with a magic weapon then it's pretty useless as you'll have a magic weapon by the time this flexfeat comes online.
The swarm thing sounds okay if you don't have swarmbane clasp or someone on swarm duty for the party.
I don't see flexing into maneuvers as being useful, most of the "good ones" require combat expertise so that's another feat spent setting up for this combo to be slightly less bad but still bad at any maneuver you want. like you're a FIGHTER! if you are fighting someone and need them to stop hurting then you kill them. need them alive? then do a hit of non-lethal and then "kill them". You're very good easily at killing things.
Well, there’s feats in the Haunted Heroes Handbook that let you beat up entities that have possessed your allies and allow you to hurt incorporeal creatures with non magical weapons. There’s a feat that lets mundane fight swarms more effectively. And getting combat maneuvers only when they’re useful is a nice trick.assuming that those feats don't have any or at least not hard to mean requirements then that sounds like something worth flexing into, dealing with haunts and possession.
Unless damaging incorporeal is better than magic with a magic weapon then it's pretty useless as you'll have a magic weapon by the time this flexfeat comes online.
The swarm thing sounds okay if you don't have swarmbane clasp or someone on swarm duty for the party.
I don't see flexing into maneuvers as being useful, most of the "good ones" require combat expertise so that's another feat spent setting up for this combo to be slightly less bad but still bad at any maneuver you want. like you're a FIGHTER! if you are fighting someone and need them to stop hurting then you kill them. need them alive? then do a hit of non-lethal and then "kill them". You're very good easily at killing things.
I get it. You don't like having flexible feats. I suppose you're right, though. Everyone knows the sorcerer is better than the wizard because always having access to your best tricks is way better than having a bunch of lesser, situational tricks on-hand should the day require them. There's never a situation in which the wizard could ever compare to its superior cousin, the sorcerer. ;)
I get it. You don't like having flexible feats. I suppose you're right, though. Everyone knows the sorcerer is better than the wizard because always having access to your best tricks is way better than having a bunch of lesser, situational tricks on-hand should the day require them. There's never a situation in which the wizard could ever compare to its superior cousin, the sorcerer. ;)
The strength of flexibility for the wizard is in HOW STRONG the flexible answers are for the situation. If you want trip someone your spell makes you as good as any tripper possible and probably do an AoE effect tripping multiple people or at long range making your trips better. Also since your role is likely Support rather than direct damage spending your turn to trip is your job and there's nothing being missed while if the fighter trips then there's damage that is being lost.
Like getting 10 ranks int0 an int skill that you've dumped int to an 8 means you now have a +9 in that thing. I'm fairly sure there must be a spell that lets you make a check as if you had ranks in it, thus basically anyone or yourself using that will give the same result or better. Thus the fighter flexing into that isn't a strong solution, carrying some pretty cheap scrolls solves the issue just fine and is very affordable because you're lv9 before this build turns on. Or if the check is going to take longer than a minute or be used more than once, like trying to persuade someone or disabling traps, now all your uses are up and there was likely a solution in the party that is less expensive for them.
But When you say that you need to leave an AWT feat open and take abundant tactics as your 9th level AWT and take barroom brawler to just have the bare essentials to flex at all and combat expertise flex too to flex into the "good" combat maneuvers. And since most of the fighter's "solutions" that it can flex into are pretty weak options I don't see it being worth the opportunity cost.
Like at lv9 your AWT could be to fix your will save and your reflex save, or fix a save and warrior spirit, your feats could be the save feats, or the item mastery feats or whatever. To me losing all those to maybe flexibly get them to be able to maybe flexibly get something niche doesn't seem like a good trade.
Like the situation where flexing into the trip feat and tripping an enemy and then trying to kill it being easier than just killing it is just not one I really see happening. Thus since this hold true with basically all maneuvers than the ability to flex into maneuvers isn't really that useful of an option.
And to top this off, it's ONE feat, this is why the brawlers actual flexibility is better and more worth since you can get entire chains on the fly, still not my favorite, but I can easily see the worth and appeal. But here when it's only one feat means you really can flex into something you haven't prepared for.
Well, there’s feats in the Haunted Heroes Handbook that let you beat up entities that have possessed your allies and allow you to hurt incorporeal creatures with non magical weapons. There’s a feat that lets mundane fight swarms more effectively. And getting combat maneuvers only when they’re useful is a nice trick.assuming that those feats don't have any or at least not hard to mean requirements then that sounds like something worth flexing into, dealing with haunts and possession.
Unless damaging incorporeal is better than magic with a magic weapon then it's pretty useless as you'll have a magic weapon by the time this flexfeat comes online.
The swarm thing sounds okay if you don't have swarmbane clasp or someone on swarm duty for the party.
I don't see flexing into maneuvers as being useful, most of the "good ones" require combat expertise so that's another feat spent setting up for this combo to be slightly less bad but still bad at any maneuver you want. like you're a FIGHTER! if you are fighting someone and need them to stop hurting then you kill them. need them alive? then do a hit of non-lethal and then "kill them". You're very good easily at killing things.
The ghost slayer feat has these prerequisites: 1 rank in knowledge (religion) and 1bab. It is takable literally at level 1. Oh, and if you have +2 or greater weapon, you get to treat it as a ghost touch weapon.
The soul blade feat has the exact same preqrequisites as the ghost slayer feat and lets fighters actually do something to haunts.
The rat catcher feat has these prerequisites: 1 rank in knowledge (Dungeoneering) and 1bab. It lets fighters handle an enemy that they normally could do nothing to.
3 very situational feats with easy-to-meet prerequisites that allow a fighter to face challenges he couldn’t otherwise deal with when they turn up.
Martial flexibility is good.
The ghost slayer feat has these prerequisites: 1 rank in knowledge (religion) and 1bab. It is takable literally at level 1. Oh, and if you have +2 or greater weapon, you get to treat it as a ghost touch weapon.
The soul blade feat has the exact same preqrequisites as the ghost slayer feat and lets fighters actually do something to haunts.
The rat catcher feat has these prerequisites: 1 rank in knowledge (Dungeoneering) and 1bab. It lets fighters handle an enemy that they normally could do nothing to.
3 very situational feats with easy-to-meet prerequisites that allow a fighter to face challenges he couldn’t otherwise deal with when they turn up.
Martial flexibility is good.
Yup, these are the kinds of feats that would be worth for barroom brawler. These are easy to qualify for, do cool and useful stuff that is quite strong at it's solution.
Now it's still dependant on parties abilities if I would view just these as worth it. But the longer the list of feats like these gets the more and easier it is for the feat to be worthwhile and easier than buying the cheap things that cover the same situations.
EDIT:
Oil of Spirit-Bound Blade gives ghost touch and another ability like keen or vicious.
for haunts and swarms (outside swarmbane clasp) I'm not really aware of things that wouldn't run off UMD that are effective.
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Shrodinger's fighter has a lot of good options. Ideally, you can manage NOT taking Advanced Weapon Training until you can give up your second Weapon Group at 9 and take the feat proper at 10. You want the first Advanced Weapon Training to remain open and floating so you can grab it with Barroom Brawler.
The old Manual of War also adds to this as it gives you yet another variable feat meaning you can switch your build up with a couple feats on the daily.
There's also the Quick Study feat available to humans and their bastards.
Then, once you hit the right level to get enough of a bonus for it to matter, Warrior Spirit can add any weapon enhancement, which includes the Training ability from Inner Sea Intrigue that gives you a combat feat so long as you meet its prerequisites.
By level 11 any fighter who leaves three feat slots open (and by open I mean one of them is Quick Study, one is Barroom Brawler, and one gets changed daily by Manual of War) can complete any (up to) 4 feat chain they need to on a day to day basis.
There's also the fighter that focuses on crafting, taking the Toilcrafter trait, the Master Armorer Advanced Armor Training, and Master Craftsman (tailor) you can have access to pretty much any magic item you could find yourself needing.
so you take 2 feats, barroom brawler and abundant tactics via a feat or AWT which is worth a feat.
Flying opponent? potion of fly if no other flight available. Plus being able to attack some ranged attacks doesn't really do much to counter flying enemies.
need DD? When do you ever NEED DD? plus if you feel you need it then take it as one of your two feats.
Reflex saves just became important? How do reflex saves suddenly become important before it's too late? Also this is good to just have anyways to always have it before it's too late.
Need skills? Bro, there's someone in the party better at skills than you or a cheap scroll if there's not. no need to waste feats to be kinda okay at a skill for a minute, plus lots of skills take a minute or more to do, so like if you find a trap then that uses up your entire use, need to talk with someone, an entire use. Sure this is a neat trick, but not really that useful for you.
Fighting multiple small opponents? full attack, with haste it's even better. Them being small means your second attack should be likely to hit, and now you don't have an AC penalty and don't need to waste the feat cause they still never stand in the correct position!
Need a combat maneuver? No you don't have them all unless you've taken prerequisite feats letting you qualify, which is another feat, at least, down the drain for this idea. And when do you need a maneuver? unless that is your main plan it's not really a good idea to try maneuvers, it takes more than just a feat or two to make them work.
Warrior Spirit? if you want it you have it already.
The perceived power is having lots of options, but since most of the time those options aren't good options for a party and that if you don't go this route you have the few decent options all the time it's not really that useful.
So sure, if you like it go for it, I'm still unconvinced that it's worth it, especially when needing to give up an AWT to leave open for it.
Schrodinger's fighter has access to all of those, plus a hundred more options, all the time, without burning WBL, for the cost of just two feats.