| Kiesman |
I've always been interested in trying to make a character focused on using Scrolls as their primary means of... well, everything. Offense, support, defense etc.
However, I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out the best way to do this. There doesn't really seem to be any good scroll-focused archetypes (that I've been able to find), and google hasn't been very helpful.
What can any of you come up with to make a character focused on scroll use?
| shaventalz |
How do you feel about the Cyphermage?
It needs you to already be a caster, and it progresses spellcasting, so you won't only be using scrolls. Still, it's got goodies like "bonuses to UMD on scrolls", "apply metamagic to scrolls", and "add twice your Int bonus on CL checks." That last one can get really silly with scrolls of Dispel Magic or Neutralize Poison. Most of the abilities come with a very harsh limit on uses/day, though, so sometimes it can feel like the only class feature you got last level was spellcasting.
I've got one myself in PFS. The problem is, I rarely dig into my stack of scrolls. The lack of Scribe Scroll (and, admittedly, his constant vanity purchases of spells for his spellbooks) means I'm less likely to have the "perfect counter" scroll. When it does go off, though, it's great.
| parrot familiar |
It is SO FUN. Scrollmaster is a good idea except that its rules are a tangled and ambiguous mess. I have one in PFS--you just have to run it very carefully, always show the weird scrollshield/blade rules to the GM and figure out how they are tracking damage to them, how many HP they really have, what happens when you turn a damaged scrollshield back into a normal scroll, whether the free action to turn one into a blade or shield can be done in quick succession (imagine: shield-blade-whack-shield!), etc. etc.
I recommend never using your scrollblade power, except in emergencies. I carry a whip and scrolls of True Strike for general combat. Also try to avoid taking hits as they will degrade your scrollshield. Nobody expects the wizard to tank, so this is easier than it sounds.
That part kinda stinks.
The part that doesn't stink is when you can buy a 4th level scroll with two prestige points, getting you a +3 to AC and access to something encounter-ending. Summon a Hound Archon using Summon Monster 4 at level one, utterly saving your party's bacon. The fact that you're blowing 2PP to do so will not be lost on them--they will love you for it (obviously not something to do except in truly dire situations. Cheaper than dying).
Or, you can get multiples of the same spell on a scroll. Michael Brock has this official PFS houserule from 2012:
"Ok folks. I've talked to several people about the pros and cons. We are going to limit this to the same spell on a scroll. So, to answer the OP, you can have five copies of scorching ray on one scroll but only that spell. You will not be able to mix and match with different spells on the same scroll. I will FAQ if necessary. That's my final decision. It is a compromise to allow magic users to have a bit more utility without it getting out of hand."
Finally, it just makes you a better player. Normally I'm a hoarder, but the fringe benefits of Scrollmaster incentivized using consumables. Turns out they are really powerful. Just spend enough treasure on utility scrolls that you always have something to contribute. It makes the wizard much more fun to play at lower levels. Need a horse? Mount. Need to visit iceworld? Endure Elements. Need a friend? Charm Person. Go ahead and spend a few hundred gold on level one spells. I made index cards for them. I'd sort through the stack whenever there'd be a problem and realize that I had a solution (or at least something to try). I also got to use lots of spells I wouldn't normally prepare. It's dang fun.
Which brings me to: sure, you spend a lot of prestige and gold on non-durable items. But you're still a wizard--these tactics will keep you going until the power curve of wizardry kicks in.
Oh! Get the Cypher Magic feat. PFS lets Spell Focus count as the prereq.
| Kiesman |
See, I looked at the Scrollmaster but for the same reasons (broken, ambiguous descriptions), didn't really consider it. Also not getting anything special about casting from scrolls until 10th level.
Bringing me to my second point: Taking Cyphermage after 5 levels of Scrollmaster. Would that be super detrimental due to not getting that 10th level ability, or would it actually work well?
| Meraki |
I'm doing something quite similar at the moment in a RotRL game, playing a wizard going into a cyphermage. Except instead of going scrollmaster, I went with the scroll scholar archetype.
Weirdly, the abilities don't actually focus on scrolls at that much. But I've been finding them handy, combined with the cypher magic feat, which lets you cast scrolls at 1 caster level higher (and is a prereq for cyphermage anyway).
| shaventalz |
I'm doing something quite similar at the moment in a RotRL game, playing a wizard going into a cyphermage. Except instead of going scrollmaster, I went with the scroll scholar archetype.
Weirdly, the abilities don't actually focus on scrolls at that much. But I've been finding them handy, combined with the cypher magic feat, which lets you cast scrolls at 1 caster level higher (and is a prereq for cyphermage anyway).
That's because it doesn't actually have anything to do with the magic items. It's a reference to the Scrolls division of the Pathfinder Society, who are the knowledge-focused branch. That's why it gets knowledge bonuses and SLAs that help in research. Incidentally, that's also the archetype for my Cyphermage's wizard levels.
Be aware that if you go this route you (probably) lose a 4th-level spell slot at 10th level to no benefit. The archetype removes it, and PRCs that advance spellcasting use the (now-lowered) progression of the class. The archetype gives you something to replace it, but if you go with a PRC and never get that ability...
| Hubaris |
The Pathfinder Savant (Prestige Class) gains the following at 3rd:
Scroll Master (Su): At 3rd level, a Pathfinder savant can use his own caster level instead of the item’s caster level when using a scroll or other spell-completion item.
All the time. You don't get your Casting Modifier like you would with the Cyphermage but you can get Dispel Scrolls, Break Enchantments, etc.
| shaventalz |
Now THAT is a very nice ability. Hm, the decisions...
If you intend to go with UMD and don't mind the loss of a casting level, it's probably better than Cyphermage for most purposes. Taking 10 on UMD is huge, and Savant gets that at level 1. The constant ability to use high-CL buffs from scrolls is also quite nice.
| Kiesman |
Yeah losing a caster level isn't too much of a worry for me, tbh. Planning to throw most of my money at scrolls anyway. It's a shame there's no way to get a Scroll version of Alchemical Allocation... I'd definitely go that route.
I think the most impressive part of the take-10 ability is the fact that you don't auto fail on a 1.
| shaventalz |
I think the most impressive part of the take-10 ability is the fact that you don't auto fail on a 1.
Actually, that's a non-feature. Re-read the UMD rules, near the bottom.
Yes, but if you ever roll a natural 1 while attempting to activate an item and you fail, then you can't try to activate that item again for 24 hours.
It doesn't say "natural 1, then you fail and...", it says "natural 1 and you also fail, then..." The author and editor misread or misunderstood the skill description. Possibly twice; I don't have AG to compare the text against.
| avr |
There's a rogue talent named Eldritch Conduit which lets you use the caster level from one scroll/potion/wand to power another. It's forgettable in PFS where all consumables are created with minimum caster level, but in a normal game it's possible to make/use a caster level 5 scroll of shocking grasp, say. Also sneak attack would help make consumable items worthwhile.
| Meraki |
Be aware that if you go this route you (probably) lose a 4th-level spell slot at 10th level to no benefit. The archetype removes it, and PRCs that advance spellcasting use the (now-lowered) progression of the class. The archetype gives you something to replace it, but if you go with a PRC and never get that ability...
Huh, I didn't think of it like that. Logically speaking, I'd be inclined to rule that if you didn't get the benefit, you wouldn't lose the spell, but it seems like that may be in house rule territory. Mine's a home game, so I'll mention it to the GM (I doubt it'll be an issue), but it might be more of a problem in PFS. Something to keep in mind, I suppose.
(The research focus was actually why I went with it for my wizard, who is a Giant Nerd for both magic and history.)
| shaventalz |
shaventalz wrote:Be aware that if you go this route you (probably) lose a 4th-level spell slot at 10th level to no benefit. The archetype removes it, and PRCs that advance spellcasting use the (now-lowered) progression of the class. The archetype gives you something to replace it, but if you go with a PRC and never get that ability...Huh, I didn't think of it like that. Logically speaking, I'd be inclined to rule that if you didn't get the benefit, you wouldn't lose the spell, but it seems like that may be in house rule territory. Mine's a home game, so I'll mention it to the GM (I doubt it'll be an issue), but it might be more of a problem in PFS. Something to keep in mind, I suppose.
(The research focus was actually why I went with it for my wizard, who is a Giant Nerd for both magic and history.)
I asked that question around here probably a year or two ago, and the consensus was that the spell slot is lost.
Besides, consider the case where you barely dip a PRC. If you didn't "not gain" the slot at Level10, you'd actually lose the slot later when you actually took Wizard10. That seems less reasonable to me than just never gaining the slot in the first place (like the ability mentions.)
Also, I'm pretty sure that our wizards should never be allowed in the same room together. Things happen, spells get exchanged, and the next thing you know they've been camped out in the Forae Logos for a month.