Worn Hybrid Item - Null-Space Chamber and Efficient Bandolier

[Patryn-]

Do Null-Space Chambers and Efficient Bandoliers count towards your worn magic item limit?

Page 222 says "Worn magic items are things like rings, cloaks, amulets, and gloves." Helms/circlets have also been specifically called out.

Null-Space Chambers can be "attached to an arm or backpack." Efficient Bandolier "fits over a medium creature."

I lean towards them not counting, but curious what others thought.

[Gary Bush]

Using the word "like" is the same as "including but not likmited to".

So Yes both count as magic items being worn.

[Xenocrat]

Null Space definitely don’t count. One works just as well sitting on a desk as strapped to you.

The Bandolier seems to count as worn, but I’m not sure it should. Most (all?) clearly worn item grant the wearer a specific effect or SLA that affects their body. The Bandolier doesn’t.

[Gary Bush]

But they both fall under magic items, so....

[Xenocrat]

Gary Bush wrote:

But they both fall under magic items, so....

But only “worn” magic/hybrid items have a cap of two. You can’t use a tiara or gloves if you have two rings on, but you can use a digital harrow deck or starstone compass because those work when held. The null space chamber definitely can be operated while held.

[Patryn-]

There are three types of magic/hybrid items. Worn, held, and consumable. Only worn items have a limit. I like Xenocrat's point that worn items have to be worn to gain the benefit.

For example holding a ring of resistance or having one in your bag does nothing. It's not until you put it on your finger that you gain a bonus to your lowest resistance.

This would be consistent with a null-space chamber not being worn because it always works, whether it's sitting in a cargo hold, in your backpack, or on your belt.

I'm still unsure about the bandolier. It seems to function like a null-space chamber but only for ammo so I'm going to go with not worn.

[Gary Bush]

Man, now I have to go read the rules again instead of relying on my "perfect" memory.

And yea, the Efficient Bandolier is a worn item and would fall under the limit. Just wish they would have used the word "worn" in the description instead of "fits over".

As for a Null-Space Chamber, it is just a modern day Bag of Holding and thus not worn and would not fall under the limit of two.

Sorry for not going to source before opening my mouth...

While not part of the original question, Psychic Boosters are also worn.

Mindlink Circlet is also worn. Again they don't say it in the description but if you look on page 226, Wearing Hybrid Items, it calls out Minklink Circlet specifically.

[Rahod]

This is simple if an item takes up a body slot like arms chest head and such it is considered worn.

Null-Space Chamber works no matter worn or not which does not mean you cant have one just that if you wear it, then it will count.

Per CRB "A null-space chamber is a circular device often designed to be strapped to an arm or backpack." which means it is a worn object, but its function does not stop if not worn.

[whew]

Can anyone operate the controls for a null-space chamber while "you" are wearing it, or does it have a single master at any given time? If "you" in the description means only its owner can operate it, then it should count against the magic item limit.

[Castilliano]

whew wrote:

Can anyone operate the controls for a null-space chamber while "you" are wearing it, or does it have a single master at any given time? If "you" in the description means only its owner can operate it, then it should count against the magic item limit.

Disagree.

There are other examples of magic items that only the owner uses, but does not wear. And you slipped in "wearing" which I don't believe is in the item's description. While the a Null-Space Chamber may be attached, it does not need to be. Essentially it's being carried, but can be carried in quite accessible ways, like a water bottle. The bandolier, on the other hand, is meant to be worn, like a Camelbak pack or beer helmet.
While similar, they're different enough.

What I find awkward is when somebody carries a bandolier rather than wears it. Does it not function while carried but obviously not worn if they have two magic rings on? Is it then implied that a bandolier needs to be worn to function?
Hmm...

[EC Gamer Guy]

I see some silliness arising from Efficient Bandoliers counting against worn limits:

1) Offensively put one on an opponent to turn off his items.

2) Put one on an opponent, the Bandolier turns off and ejects grenades set to detonate on impact with the floor.

Seriously though, I'd not count the Bandolier as a worn item. this is in part because it does say "fit over" not "worn" which seems a clunky and therefore intentional wording.

[Gary Bush]

EC Gamer Guy wrote:

Seriously though, I'd not count the Bandolier as a worn item. this is in part because it does say "fit over" not "worn" which seems a clunky and therefore intentional wording.

Or it could be just two different people writing two different parts and the difference got missed in editing.

There are other problem with Hybrid items as well and not having "worn" in the description. I mention the Minklink Circlet above.

I think we need a FAQ at least on this one as I can't see how the Bandolier is NOT worn. It is going around a medium creature. How is that not being worn?

As an aside, what do small and larger creature do as this item specifically calls out medium creatures?

[whew]

If you hold it in your hand to use it, it's not worn. If it only works while stuck to some other part of the body, then it's worn, period. The vague language on where to attach/fit is just be there to support aliens with oddly-shaped bodies. The null-space chamber isn't clear on whether it does or doesn't function sitting on the ground.

My interpretation of "does not function" is that it closes up and nothing can be added or removed, not that it instantly dumps everything out. That's how extra-dimensional spaces work in anti-magic or inside other extra-dimensional spaces in Pathfinder. (I know, this isn't Pathfinder, but that doesn't mean we have to use interpretations that produce obnoxious results.)

If we let worn items work while held in the hand, that gives a big advantage to races with extra hands like kasathas and skittermanders.

Alternate probably-not-RAI interpretation: the bandolier and chamber don't specify a range, so you can leave them far behind and still call their contents into your hand! Or possibly just anywhere that the GM rules that the item can hear you command it. Put a remote control on it?

[FiddlersGreen]

If it works all the same whether it is held or attached to your arm or placed at your hip, then it might be a little obtuse to argue that it counts against the limit when worn but not when it is held.

Don't complicate things that don't need to be complicated.

[Ravingdork]

I'm not seeing anything that specifically states that efficient bandoliers are worn items, at least not in the sense that they use up a magic item slot.