| Golurkcanfly |
Say, for instance, my character is a 5th-level Sun Singer Skald. They have a special ability (that replaces Spell Kenning) that allows them to channel energy. However, the ability is not named Channel Energy, but Channel Solar Energy. On the other hand, it explicitly states that I channel energy as a cleric does. Normally, I can only do this once per day (twice at 11th and three times at 17th). Can I take Extra Channeling to increase my uses per day?
Exact text for reference:
Channel Solar Energy (Su): At 5th level, a sunsinger skald can channel energy as a cleric once per day to heal wounds or harm undead like a good-aligned cleric.
EDIT: I also forgot to mention that unlike a Necromancer's Turn Undead ability, the ability does not explicitly disallow Extra Channeling.
Murdock Mudeater
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Say, for instance, my character is a 5th-level Sun Singer Skald. They have a special ability (that replaces Spell Kenning) that allows them to channel energy. However, the ability is not named Channel Energy, but Channel Solar Energy. On the other hand, it explicitly states that I channel energy as a cleric does. Normally, I can only do this once per day (twice at 11th and three times at 17th). Can I take Extra Channeling to increase my uses per day?
Exact text for reference:
Quote:Channel Solar Energy (Su): At 5th level, a sunsinger skald can channel energy as a cleric once per day to heal wounds or harm undead like a good-aligned cleric.EDIT: I also forgot to mention that unlike a Necromancer's Turn Undead ability, the ability does not explicitly disallow Extra Channeling.
Unclear if officially allowed, but I would allow it. I would also allow a necromancer to qualify for extra channelling. Both would also be able to take improved channeling and Selective Channeling, or use traits that increased the effectiveness of channeling.
What isn't allowed, is the channel feats that alter what channel targets, like Alignment Channel or Elemental Channel. Channel Ray or Channel Smite might be allowed in your case, but not for the necromancer (since their channel can't deal damage).
Does that make sense?
| Jeraa |
It is not actually an official FAQ.
Pretty sure this is the FAQ he was talking about:
Archetype: If an archetype replaces a class ability with a more specific version of that ability (or one that works similarly to the replaced ability), does the archetype's ability count as the original ability for the purpose of rules that improve the original ability?
It depends on how the archetype's ability is worded. If the archetype ability says it works like the standard ability, it counts as that ability. If the archetype's ability requires you to make a specific choice for the standard ability, it counts as that ability. Otherwise, the archetype ability doesn't count as the standard ability. (It doesn't matter if the archetype's ability name is different than the standard class ability it is replacing; it is the description and game mechanics of the archetype ability that matter.)
Example: The dragoon (fighter) archetype (Ultimate Combat) has an ability called "spear training," which requires the dragoon to select "spears" as his weapon training group, and refers to his weapon training bonus (even though this bonus follows a slightly different progression than standard weapon training). Therefore, this ability counts as weapon training for abilities that improve weapon training, such as gloves of dueling (Advanced Player's Guide), which increase the wearer's weapon training bonus.
Example: The archer (fighter) archetype gets several abilities (such as "expert archer") which replace weapon training and do not otherwise refer to the weapon training ability. Therefore, this ability does not count as weapon training for abilities that improve weapon training (such as gloves of dueling). This is the case even for the "expert archer," ability which has a bonus that improves every 4 fighter levels, exactly like weapon training.
| BadBird |
Paladins gain an ability called Channel Positive Energy. Is someone really going to argue that they don't have the Channel Energy ability as a prerequisite, because it's not the same name?
The general response to such questions as far as I've ever seen has been that if an ability gives you X feature, then it's the same thing as another ability that gives you X feature, even if the name of the ability isn't the same. The Necromancy School channeling ability makes the assumption that you have Channel Energy as a prerequisite to take Extra Channel, Improved Channel and such, even though it's called Power Over Undead, has restrictions on use, and doesn't even use the 'works like a Cleric' language.
| BadBird |
"Special: If a paladin with the ability to channel positive energy takes this feat, she can use lay on hands four additional times a day, but only to channel positive energy."
It helps the feat literally says they can, badbird
It doesn't say they can take it, it says what happens IF they take it. Which means that it's already assumed that they can take it. Which just again demonstrates the point.
Seriously, grammar matters when reading rules text.
| Cavall |
Ok so...what was your original point about people arguing they couldn't count for these feats ?
You're making no sense. The feat says they can take it and shows what happens. Meaning they can take it. Meaning there would be no argument they couldn't in the first place. Meaning my point was right and your original point by your own admission was moot?
I think you're just arguing to argue.
Murdock Mudeater
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Cavall wrote:"Special: If a paladin with the ability to channel positive energy takes this feat, she can use lay on hands four additional times a day, but only to channel positive energy."
It helps the feat literally says they can, badbird
It doesn't say they can take it, it says what happens IF they take it. Which means that it's already assumed that they can take it. Which just again demonstrates the point.
Seriously, grammar matters when reading rules text.
So while I do agree that their grammar sucks, I do think that on this point, the Paladin Channel Positive Energy is widely accepted to mean Channel Energy (positive only). One of those RIP moments (Rules In Practice) which obviously differs from the RAW (rules as written), and may or may not be RAI (rules as intended). Pathfinder's kinda terrible for this.
RIP is kinda my own term, but for pathfinder, it's pretty clear that players aren't always using RAW or RAI while playing the game, and are often playing with an undefined set of rules that they "recall" being in the rulebook or were told "last time" it was a rule.
| BadBird |
Uh... my original comment that apparently provoked response was that it's always been accepted that Paladins and Necromancy School count as having Channel Energy as a prerequisite, despite their abilities being called different names. The language of Necromancy School and Extra Channel reveals this assumption. Are people somehow interpreting what I'm saying as exactly the opposite?
| BadBird |
I was nitpicking the wording because if the wording says 'A Paladin may take Extra Channel', it implies that they couldn't take it without something telling them they can. If the wording is instead about what happens when they take it, that means it's understood that they can. This is quite relevant to the original question.
| MrCharisma |
I also forgot to mention that unlike a Necromancer's Turn Undead ability, the ability does not explicitly disallow Extra Channeling.
I might be thinking of the wrong thing here, but I think you read this wrong:
Power over Undead (Su)
You CAN take other feats to add to this ability, such as Extra Channel and Improved Channel, but not feats that alter this ability, such as Elemental Channel and Alignment Channel.
Just so you're not nerfing your necromancers in future.
Anyway the OP's question was answered up-thread by Jeraa, so go team!