Use magic device for a tetori

[Atalius]

Two spells in particular I would like to be able to use are Shield and Mirror Image. I wanted to know peoples thoughts on Mirror Image specifically for a Tetori. Would it be useful in scroll form with UMD. The campaign we are playing for does have an arena where we will take part in gladiatorial combat vs beasts and I am looking for ways to improve my survivability.

[Grandlounge]

Are you familiar with how to umd from scrolls? It's kind of a pain.

Umd is good. The spells you want are good. So it is a matter of what you score is and how much time your gm gives you to fiddle with magic items before you fight.

[Atalius]

I think so? Is it worth the trouble?

[Grandlounge]

It all depends do you have the int to cast the spell? Do you require a second roll? The Wisdom check on a failure is likely not a big deal for you.

Will you get enough mirror images to make casting the spell valuable?

The value of this particular question is very situational if given a specific fight I can tell you but there will be no general rule.

Do you want to be pend on something that fails on a ? Maybe, maybe not.

[Atalius]

I was thinking about using it in the gladiator arena fights in the campaign Savage Tide vs beasts.

[Taja the Barbarian]

Use Magic Device (Cha; Trained Only)
To use a scroll of Mirror Image, you need to make the following checks:

• A DC 23+ Check to 'Use Scroll' (assuming the 'standard' Caster Level 3)
• A DC 27 Check if you don't have the 12 Intelligence required to cast a level 2 Wizard Spell

This assumes a scroll scribed by a Wizard: If your GM allows scrolls scribed by other classes, the first check will probably have a higher DC (other classes tend to have a higher 'minimum caster level' but could change the necessity of the second check (A scroll written by an Adept would require a 12 Wisdom instead of Intellect to use without the second check, but would have a caster level of 4 or higher).

Once you successfully use this scroll, you will have 1d4+1 images for a couple of minutes, which could reduce the number of times you are hit. However, there are a couple of possible issues:

• Sightless opponents won't be distracted by the images.
• If your AC is already pretty good, the images will likely be wasted (being missed by 5 or less automatically destroys an image).
• Finally, such a scroll will cost you at least 150 gold.

So, the questions are:

• Can you routinely make the required UMD check(s)? If you 'dumped' Charisma, this may be a serious issue.
• Is the spell likely to actually help?
• Will you have access to these scrolls and the cash to buy them (usually not an issue, but consumable use can add up.

[Atalius]

Wisdom is 14 and INT is 9 that is an issue. And yes I dumped Charisma lol :)

[Taja the Barbarian]

Atalius wrote:

Wisdom is 14 and INT is 9 that is an issue. And yes I dumped Charisma lol :)

Well, Intelligence and Charisma are the only two stats most monk builds don't 'need' so it's not exactly surprising...

So,

• If your GM allows scrolls crafted by an Adept, a scroll will retail for 200g and will require a single DC24 check of a non-class skill tied to a 'dump stat' which means you'll need at least 5 ranks before the check even becomes possible and probably 10-15 ranks before it becomes practical.
• If you can only get the 'standard' Wizard scrolls, you will need to make a DC23 check and a DC27 check of a non-class skill tied to a 'dump stat' which means you'll need at least 8 ranks before the check even becomes possible and probably 15 ranks before it becomes practical.

Now, there are ways to get bonuses on these checks to make them a little more reasonable, but it's going to take a fair amount of effort to get this idea to work.

A scroll of Shield will be slightly easier to use (DCs 21 and 26), but only slightly (Adepts don't get this spell, but I know Spiritualists do, so you can get a Wisdom based version in theory).

[DM Livgin]

Check out the cracked Vibrant Purple Prism (Ioun Stone). It works great for shield.

[Atalius]

Grandlounge wrote:

Are you familiar with how to umd from scrolls? It's kind of a pain.

Umd is good. The spells you want are good. So it is a matter of what you score is and how much time your gm gives you to fiddle with magic items before you fight.

The GM seems to give me time to fiddle before entering rooms etc to use Shield or any other low level scroll I want to activate. Now the thing is by level 8 I should have a UMD of +5. That is rather pathetic certainly. However I was thinking maybe I can get a wand key ring and buy scrolls of Mirror Image. We are just going to get a wand of Shield and with a +5 I can probably roll a 15 or more once in four tries.

Actually I'd like to ask all you knowledgeable people on this thread, if you could as a tetori use a wand key ring to link to one scroll which one would u link it to? Which is best for him?

[Scott Wilhelm]

Somebody recently clued me into this. If you make your Tetori a Half Elf, you can get an Alternate Racial Trait that will let you use Wizard Spell Wands with no need for a UMD check. Arcane Training, I think. Otherwise, you could just dip a level in something. Arcanists have some Class Abilities you would find useful in addition to allowing you to use those Wands.

[DM Livgin]

I like Shield. Enemies try to hit you a surprising amount.

[Atalius]

Perfect wand of shield ftw any particular best scroll with a target of You?

And is mirror image even good on a grappler?

[DM Livgin]

Neither Shield or Mirror Image directly improve your grappling, they are just good defensive buffs to prevent enemies from stabbing you. An unconscious grappler pins no one.

Buffs that improve your grappling is anything that: A) increases attack rolls, B) is an AC bonus that also applies to CMD, C) gives you more utility grappling.

A: Lots of buffs will increase your attack rolls, which increase your CMB while grappling. The plus one to hit from Haste, the competence bonus to hit from Inspire Courage, moral and luck bonuses from Bless and Prayer. Keep an eye on bonus types to ensure you are not double stacking. None of these bonuses will apply to CMD.

B: Circumstance, deflection, dodge, insight, luck, morale, profane, and sacred bonuses to your AC apply to your CMD. So the dodge bonus from Haste, the +4 Dodge bonus from ki points and the deflection bonus from Shield of Faith all increase your CMD.

C: Grappling is very restrictive on actions, anything that gives you utility is great. Haste lets you close in a single move action where you normally have to double move. Long Arm or Enlarge can increase your reach to grab an enemy that would normally be just out of reach. Fly and Spiderclimb gets you to out of reach opponents.

[Atalius]

Nice list, ya I was thinking from a defensive standpoint the mirror image I'm just not sure how that would work while grappling if other ppl could easily hit me or if they would see 1D4+1 images etc

[Atalius]

I like that long arm play. We have a sorcerer he could craft the wand at half price. I do become enlarged frequently and with long arms 15ft reach is very nice. What do you think?

[DM Livgin]

The enemy you are grappling takes no penalties from mirror image unless he is making a non-grapple attack. But it defends against other attacks.

The glossary of the core rule book has this to say about grappling, stealth, and invisibility:

Quote:

A grappled creature cannot use Stealth to hide from the creature grappling it, even if a special ability, such as hide in plain sight, would normally allow it to do so. If a grappled creature becomes invisible, through a spell or other ability, it gains a +2 circumstance bonus on its CMD to avoid being grappled, but receives no other benefit.

From the above I interpret that mirror image will not affect grapple checks once grappling.