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So, after our last campaign in the AP, half our party was captured after we got cocky during a guerilla hit. Among the captured, is my Ifrit Ranger.
In anticipation of possibly bringing in a new character, I've decided with our current composition- a Skald would be a good party-support character.
Not just any Skald, a Hobgoblin Wyrm-Singer Skald.
Simple backstory being he/she was deemed "unfit" to join the invasion, and hobgoblins being wary of magic didn't want care for the support magics the skald could provide. [Hence, he has the Unfit trait]
So, joining the surviving heroes to show them how wrong they are [and invest heavily into the disguise skill to avoid hostility.] I feel the character more fits the Skald mentality, than a Bard giving the story of the AP.
Being a primary support caster, stats are thus, at 4th lvl:
Str. 10
Dex 16 (+2 race, +1 @ 4th)
Con 12 (+2 race)
Int 14
Wis 12
Cha 16
I figure the "open-mindedness" of the Wyrm Rage song would be more beneficial in the setting, as it doesn't have the "pc's affected by inspired rage can't use abilities, etc" unless i'm reading it wrong. :p
plus, the Dragon Breath and Form of Dragon at later levels sounds bad-ass.
I'd like this skald to have more defensive rage powers, but most of the ones i was hoping to use, i can't. I'd like to take Energy Resist, but the resist is so low, and it's stuck to one element when i pick the rage power- it's moot.
Spells are going to be more support biased with some summoning, so i'm not completely useless outside of battle.
I don't think this character would mind going the Slashing Grace route, as my current Ranger is going the Dervish Dance route. Or, to make the character seem completely out of place- Starry Grace with Starknives- just in case s/he does get embroiled in combat.
that said, any advice or counter builds vs the Wyrm singer archetype?
My current character, Ifrit Ranger, hasn't died yet- i just want to get this character ready in case my Ranger does die.
would it be worthwhile to go for some Masterpieces early or not bother?
Thanks much.
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The problem with the archetype is most of its power is replaced with spells, heroism, goodhope, greater heroism. This is made worse with the metamagic encouraging. This is why I avoid it.
If you want to keep with the build moment of greatness on a wand is great low level support. Summons tend toward support, flanking and taking damage, even on ninth level casters until they have feats to help. My experience is 6th level casters (summoners and some archetypes notwithstanding) make bad summoners.
Discordant voice level 11
Community minded trait
Finale line of spells are great saving finale being my top choice. Sandals of quick reaction are a great mid level buy.
I will offer some spells a little later. Going dex based eats your first 2 feats, Discordant voice. So we have 3 feats to play with did you have any thoughts?
Spirit totem can offer decent defenses. Strength surge + maneuver rage powers are a strong choice, beast totem for AC and Pounce can be very good. Unexpected Strike (Ex) is always nice. Reckless Abandon is a good argo power. Increased Damage Reduction (Ex) is ok but weaker than other options.
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It's best with the skald class to mention who else you've got in the party. They depend on that knowledge
The current party is, lvl 4:
my Ifrit Ranger [sword devil using Dancing Dervish, captured]Dwarf Paladin [captured]
Ratfolk Ninja [captured]
Suli Sorcerer/Ranger [wanting to go Dragon Disciple, doesn't do much spell casting]
Drow Ranger/Bloodrager/Paladin [going primary ranged with Urban Bloodrager]
and Half-Orc Witch [being the only dedicated caster]
@GrandLounge- so far this character is still in the planning stages and is not set in stone yet.
I don't mind tweak her stats, focusing more on Charisma and just going more spell casting. i don't need to get involved into melee.
I do want to stick with an Unfit alternate racial trait, I don't see this character as being an intimidater via Authoritative.
I looked at the Totem Skald, but i don't think i'd use the Wildshape abilities at all
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Unfit is good and fun RP. It seem like spell warrior or Urban may be better for your group.
I would get my CHA to 18 get flagbearer + banner of the ancient kings it's better for a bard be still good for you. From there focus on casting and buffing. Get a mix of support and save or suck spells and you should contribute well to the group.
You can use extra rage for Reckless Abandon and Inspire Ferocity now you have even better action economy.
Flexible Fury is a key factor in Skald support. Hitting incorporeals and overcoming alignment dr were just made trivial.
Consider things like clearmind for will rerolls. Disruptive if you face a lot of casters.
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I could tweaks the stats to:
10 Str/14 Dex [+2 R/+1b]/12 Con/12 Int/10 Wis/18 Cha
I'd rather not lose out of Scribe Scroll for Improved Counterspell, where no one knows how to effectively counterspell and so far haven't come across any spell casters.
Scrolls of CLW or whatever i have on hand is better than nothing.
As for Flagbearer, i don't want to broadcast to my team that i'm a hobgoblin- by using Disguise and False Face to hide that fact.
nor do we have access to 18k gold to afford the Banner.
I'm still trying to figure out if Inspire Ferocity could work with a Skald, as i thought i read that people under the effects of Inspired Rage can't activate abilities of Rage Powers that need to be activated.
Inspired Ferocity requires a move action.
Urban would be interesting.
I still like the Wyrm-Singer as it's a straight Att/DMG bonus rather than a stat bonus- and i save the spell slots that could have gone to Good Hope to another save-or-suck spell. or i could still take Good Hope for times i don't want to/need to burn a Rage Song.
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Rage powers from extra rage are not shared through song. So you use them just like a barbarian would. So you use inspire ferocity to share reckless abandon. Eventually swift song, move inspire ferocity, and haste as a standard.
There is never a time to not burn rounds of song you will have them on excess.
You're never going to have 18000 gp? It's a future buy not now.
A flagbearer can still lie about race, just make the flag a party flag. If anything it makes you lie more believable as your the centre of the party.
Morale from flag/banner, song bonus to stat (urban), haste , plus the accuracy bonus inspire ferocity. That's the single round you are building
+9 to attack at level 13 one round or level 8 with 1.5 rounds is really good.
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Rage powers from extra rage are not shared through song. So you use them just like a barbarian would. So you use inspire ferocity to share reckless abandon. Eventually swift song, move inspire ferocity, and haste as a standard.
There is never a time to not burn rounds of song you will have them on excess.
don't i have to be under the effect of my own Rage Song to use my Rage Powers; and can i even cast spells while under the effects of my Rage song, without Mad Magic?
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I'm beginning to wonder if a Skald [or even a bard] is needed for the group, as opposed to just a dedicated caster.
Strength bonus from the Urban would only benefit the Paladin and Sorcerer/Ranger.
Dex bonus would only help the Ninja and Ranger/Paladin/Bloodrager to hit; and give everyone a mild AC bonus.
Everyone could benefit from some more HP with a Con boost.
Do i even need the Flagbearer and eat up the feat slot, when i can just get the Good Hope spells that you advocated over the Wyrm-Singer archetype?
i could still use some insight on playing a skald, i would like to try one in PFS; but i'm now debating whether or not a pure caster would be better.
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Morale Bonuses
The difference in my recommendation for flagbearer vs good hope is that vs the Wyrm singer. Is with wyrm singer you had effectively a single bonus type to hand out. With either flagbearer or good hope you have more bonus to hand out. Either option gets you to the same total bonus. Flagbearer gets you there one round sooner, but good hope applies to saves. The former is more aggressive in terms of action economy and saving spells while starting at a lower level. The latter uses more spells and is slower but offers a broader set of bonuses. I hope this clears up my thoughts on the subject.
Playing a Skald
I play melee skalds. The reason is it gives you something to do every round when you're not casting. This is not the right way just my way. The way to play it is make sure everyone knows how your powers work before you start. Act early surprise rounds, sandals of quick reaction, high initiative. Get as much buffing done as you can. Cast or enter melee.
Your next job is to solve problems. You have 1 huge tool for this and many small ones. The big one. Urban skalds keeps spell kening the best skald feature. If you want to play a character that saves the day in a pinch this is the way to do it. What buff, remove, movement, shell, magic circle etc spell do you really need? Does someone need a force sword? What needs to be dispelled? Next you have the Finale spells make missed attack hit, give an extra standard, or unfail a save.
Skalds and bards are band aids and steroids rolled into one. This is why I like the standard skalds even without attack and damage you give HP, boosts to 2 saves, DR, fast healing, defensive rage powers. In addition you give attack/damage to those who can use it. That's what adaptive bows are for right?
The group you showed would do well to have either a bard/skald or a full caster. There are oracles and clerics that can inspire and are, obviously, 9th level casters. Those may be an option.
I don't know if this helped. If you get closer to a build you like we can talk about three round plans. This is how I decide what a I should do with a character to be effective. I like to have 3 rounds actively contributing to combat.
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The group you showed would do well to have either a bard/skald or a full caster. There are oracles and clerics that can inspire and are, obviously, 9th level casters. Those may be an option.
I don't know if this helped. If you get closer to a build you like we can talk about three round plans. This is how I decide what a I should do with a character to be effective. I like to have 3 rounds actively contributing to combat.
I haven't played an Oracle before, don't really know how to handle the Mysteries, Revelations and Curses, but having a dedicated divine caster would take the pressure off the Paladin and Witch for healing duties.
As for your "three-round rule" Im thinking with the supoort skald, his action economy would be something like:
1> Begin Rage Song [standard], activate Reckless Abandon/Inspire Ferocity [move]
2> Maintain [free], cast spell [standard], move or active RA/IF
3> Maintain, cast, move or activate RA/IF
Don't know the action economy for "brandishing a standard"
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Well, after finishing off the first book of Ironfang Invasion- we suffered a couple of casualties- our Suli Sorcerer/Ranger was captured and executed after a botched rescue, and the ratfolk ninja was executed as well.
That player is planning on bringing in a Changeling Spiritualist; don't know what the Suli player is going to bring in.
Still, i'm going to keep with this build for the time being as an auxiliary character.
So, Deep Cover was the only Trait i could find that granted the character Disguise as a class skill, without any racial restrictions.
Now that everyone is lvl 5, i'm thinking Feat wise- Improved Initiative, Extra Rage Power (?), Flagbearer
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Another fun combo is Lesser Celestial Totem + Path of Glory. Heals the party for a truckload and lets your dedicated healer (if you have one) focus on restoration and condition removal effects. Consider picking up a Poet's Cloak for some versatility, although it shares a slot with the ever-so-needed cloak of resistance.
Check the profile of this character for an example of my own support skald. Definitely not a complete match for your concept but should be able to get some ideas.
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Another fun combo is Lesser Celestial Totem + Path of Glory. Heals the party for a truckload and lets your dedicated healer (if you have one) focus on restoration and condition removal effects. Consider picking up a Poet's Cloak for some versatility, although it shares a slot with the ever-so-needed cloak of resistance
Since this is a home game, i may have to run it by my GM to allow Lesser Celestial Totem, but don't only Totemic Skalds get access to Totem Rage Powers?
*Celestial Totem powers aren't PFS legal.Path of Glory does sound like an interesting spell to stand in for a mass heal spell- 6 HP per turn is pretty powerful.
Does Flagbearer's morale bonus get boosted by Moment of Greatness?
What was that one spell that granted another Rage Power temporarily?
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okay... i'm confused- Path of Glory sets up a path that heals my party, or whomever is on Path. lesser Celestial grants a bonus to healing towards non-spell healing... isn't Path of Glory a healing spell? or because it's an on-going effect rather than instantaneous, that it gets the bonus from Lesser Celestial?
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Necro for the purpose of getting more insight and advice.
So, deep into Book 2 of the AP, my Ranger and the resident Witch gets eaten alive by a Lice Swarm. Talking about my idea of a Hobgoblin Skald, the other player is considering bringing a Hobgoblin Kineticist- and we're both on the run from the ironfang who wanted to execute us after our clans were absorbed into the Legion.
the Current party allotment is-
Dwarf Paladin
Suli Bloodrager
Elf Fighter/Slayer [archery based]
a potential Hobgoblin Kineticist.
with this party, a standard skald may be the best way to go. stick with Spell Keening for utility purposes, and now i need to figure out a good spell selection- as know i'll be the primary caster of the group. yay.
I still want to stick with False Face for the primary introduction, or should i just roll with a high disguise and/or bluff/diplomacy?
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Still debating on how rage powers work during Rage... I don't think i'll need World Serpent Spirit just yet- haven't come across enemies that that DR/Alignment yet... Ghost Rager will become good when we do begin dealing with incorporeal.
Would Extra Rage Power be a feat worth pursuing for more utility?
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Where's the FAQ that says Extra Rage Power only effects the Skald?
Can Skalds even take Lingering Performance or Extra Performance?
I'm thinking now to play this off a more defensively minded support caster. Since Skalds don't get much in the line of damage spells, but more in the way of control spells.
1> Improved Initiative
2> -
3> Flag-bearer RP: Lesser Celestial
4> -
5> ? [Lingering Performance, Masterpiece?]
6> RP: Guarded Life
7> ?
8> -
9> ?; RP: Lesser Spirit Totem
I was contemplating getting the Lesser Cult Totem to get more damage from my Reckless Abandon/Inspire Ferocity; but currently with only the Paladin and Bloodrager as our tanks, that's a path better suited for a more melee oriented team set up. I could go for a Dervish Dance build, but that will take too long to come on line and won't really benefit myself while raging.
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The Spells i'm comtemplating-
0- Read Magic, Detect Magic, Light, Mage Hand, Message, Oath of Amonymity
1- Choir of Shards, CLW, Hideous Laughter, Shadowtrap
2- CMW, Blindness/Deafness, Heroism, Path of Glory
I plan on sticking with pure Skald for now. I plan on doing some shenanigans with Spell Keening at later levels [such as scribing Raise Dead and Resurrect scrolls on my off time.]
I may still take Reckless Abandon/Inspire Fury at 9th. Deciding on the feats to take at 5/7th, Discordant Voice sounds good for an 11th lvl feat.
Life Budding in Salted Earth (masterpiece) would be amazing with Lesser Celestial Totem.
Battle Song of the People's Revolt would be hilarious with Outflank and Lesser Cult totem.
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Power attack and arcane strike are personal favs
WHY do people ALWAYS recommend Power Attack?!
I AM NOT A MELEE CHARACTER. Look at my stats: 10/14*/12*/14/10/18+I am a support caster.
Top Feat considerations:
1- Eschew Materials- i don't have it naturally, so i'd rather not worry about having to scavenge for ingredients
2- Spell Penetration- SR will eventually play part, and should get ready for it.
3- Combat Casting- for those times i need to get into the thick of things
4- Expanded Arcana- more spells for those with a small spell list
5- Expanded Spell Kenning- more options. though, how much different is the Druid/Witch list from the Bard/Wizard/Cleric list?
6- Improved Initiative- getting my Rage Song up first is always good.
Possible Build Direction-
1> Eschew Materials
2> -
3> Flagbearer, RP: Lesser Celestial Totem
4> -
5> Improved Initiative
6> RP: Guarded Life
7> Expanded Arcana [extra third level spell]
8> -
9> Spell Penetration, RP: Lesser Spirit
10> -
11> Discordant Voice
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Does your gm actually make you find materials? The game just assumes you have them.
I don't think you can have 2 different totems. You may want to double check.
My "support" skald focused on spirit totem. Lot of free attacks al low levels 20% miss on all reach or ranged attacks (stopping 1/5 of damage in some fights is pretty good). Eventually d8s that auto damage everyone. And knowledge check deific obedience irori.
I have never found expanded arcana or spell kening to be good. You will find a useful spell on the wizard or cleric list. The other list have new spells to access but it's a small improvement and it means having to read through so many more lists. Neither is worth a feat imo.
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I have never found expanded arcana or spell kening to be good. You will find a useful spell on the wizard or cleric list. The other list have new spells to access but it's a small improvement and it means having to read through so many more lists. Neither is worth a feat imo.
Getting an extra third level spell when they become available opens up, aught to help. Obvious ones are Good Hope & Haste, the extra slot for Flexible Fury.
And true about Kenning- i only have it once a day currently, pulling from more lists wouldn't be helpful at all.
Plus it's not like the character is finished.
I'm pretty much dead set on being a support character. With the resident witch dead, the only source of healing comes from our Paladin- who half the times, forgets he has Lay on Hands as a Swift action. Even then, doesn't remember how many d6 he rolls.
We have a Ranger, but he's a ranged character- and getting into combat to heal someone is something he'd rather do after the fight is done.
Going Skald, i provide support to bolster allies and have ways to keep people alive- i can scribe scrolls. Path of glory + Lesser Celestial means a lot o fast healing for the Paladin and bloodrager.
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okay- ya, can't have more than one Totem rage power. i got to stick with either the healing power of the Celestial, or the extra attack of Spirit...
honestly, with my group- the Spirit orb thing of the Spirit totem would just cause more headaches than it's worth. Path of Glory/Celestial may be a better route.
1> Improved Initiative
2> -
3> Flagbearer, RP: Lesser Celestial
4> -
5> Spell Penetration
6> RP: Guarded Life
7> Expanded Arcana
8> -
9> ? RP: Energy Resist
10> -
11> Discordant Voice
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So... It's been a while, the GM has informed us that Dwarf Paladin also died. He has no idea what he wants to build, but has said he may go ranged- with a Ranger or Witch.
That said, if he plays range- he's leaving the Bloodrager as our only frontliner.
So that leaves me with the opportunity to tweak this character accordingly...
A> build a more strength/melee based Skald whom i could RP as "her rage song encited her soldiers into a blood frenzy- and that was not conducive to an organized military" so she went into exile or kicked out.
B> Skald-Dip into Druid/Hunter- bring two martial characters into the equation
C> Skald/Druid or Skald/Hunter multiclass, get Boon Companion when i can.
or
D> go full Druid or Hunter.
opinions? Thoughts? Got two weeks to decide and finalize this build...