Polymorph any object on quasit?


Rules Questions

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Can I turn my quasit into a balor for a week or more?

Dark Archive

1 person marked this as a favorite.

You can use it as the following spells as described under Greater Polymorph:
Beast Shape IV
Elemental Body III
Alter Self
Plant Shape III
Form of the Dragon I

In other words, no. Sadly, there is no Form of the Fiend spell that would apply here.

Edit: If you'd have a cat as a familiar you could permanently turn it into a tiger with pounce, rake and scent. If you'd have a small elemental or a mephit as a familiar you could permanently turn it into a large elemental of the same type.
Remember that you only get the bonuses described in the spell and under the polymorph section in the core rulebook. So beast shape IV for the tiger and Elemental Body for the Elemental.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

That's not quite true.

Polymorph any Object isn't limited to those spells.

Which is why you can do things like turn a pebble into a person, an example explicitly listed in the spell.

The problem being is that what affects this has is unclear, since there isn't as you mention a "Form of the Outsider" spell to tell you what benefits exactly you get.

So yes, you can turn your low level outsider into a higher level outsider of the same type, but what that mechanically looks like is unknown. Except it probably doesn't have the same stats as a Balor.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

EDIT: Ack! Ninja'd while I was typing this! I'm leaving it, though!

The problem with PaO is that it either doesn't do anything that it claims it can do, or it does things beyond those spell descriptions.

Let's look at this.

Quote:
This spell functions like greater polymorph, except that it changes one object or creature into another. You can use this spell to transform all manner of objects and creatures into new forms- you aren’t limited to transforming a living creature into another living form. The duration of the spell depends on how radical a change is made from the original state to its transmuted state. The duration is determined by using the following guidelines.

And then, of course,

Quote:
This spell can also be used to duplicate the effects of baleful polymorph, greater polymorph, flesh to stone, stone to flesh, transmute mud to rock, transmute metal to wood, or transmute rock to mud.

And, of course, as greater polymorph is listed,

Quote:
This spell functions as polymorph except that it allows the creature to take on the form of a dragon or plant creature. If you use this spell to cause the target to take on the form of an animal or magical beast, it functions as beast shape IV. If the form is that of an elemental, the spell functions as elemental body III. If the form is that of a humanoid, the spell functions as alter self. If the form is that of a plant, the spell functions as plant shape II. If the form is that of a dragon, the spell functions as form of the dragon I. The subject may choose to resume its normal form as a full-round action; doing so ends the spell.

This seemingly limits it to animal, magical beast, elemental, alter self, plant, or dragon.

But looking at PaO again, we have these examples:

Pebble to human: completely impossible by any combination of spells or effects listed above. I mean, stone to flesh makes the pebble into, well, flesh, but that doesn't make it a creature or make it alive; the closest effect would be alter self.

Marionette to human: completely impossible by any combination of spells or effects listed above; the closest effect would be alter self.

Human to marionette: completely impossible by any combination of spells or effects listed above.

Lizard to manticore: completely impossible by any combination of spells or effects listed above. While greater polymorph is able to make the manticore, the mind would be worthless; to be fair, upon re-reading PaO, it might be that way here, too.

Sheep to wool coat: completely impossible by any combination of spells or effects listed above. You can't kill the sheep or turn it into anything with the listed spells.

Shrew to manticore: completely impossible by any combination of spells or effects listed above. While greater polymorph is able to make the manticore, the mind would be worthless; to be fair, upon re-reading PaO, it might be that way here, too.

Manticore to shrew: you got baleful polymorph! Finally, you got one!

So that means the list is descriptive instead of proscriptive. That means that it's not limited to only those effects.

Now, that's covered under this, to a point:

Quote:
You can use this spell to transform all manner of objects and creatures into new forms- you aren’t limited to transforming a living creature into another living form.

... but that's really not the end of the changes. It modifies the mind and body, and it allows you to imitate those spells, but also more effects. That does, however, leave it as a (polymorph) spell.

Quote:

Polymorph: a polymorph spell transforms your physical body to take on the shape of another creature. While these spells make you appear to be the creature, granting you a +10 bonus on Disguise skill checks, they do not grant you all of the abilities and powers of the creature. Each polymorph spell allows you to assume the form of a creature of a specific type, granting you a number of bonuses to your ability scores and a bonus to your natural armor. In addition, each polymorph spell can grant you a number of other benefits, including movement types, resistances, and senses. If the form you choose grants these benefits, or a greater ability of the same type, you gain the listed benefit. If the form grants a lesser ability of the same type, you gain the lesser ability instead. Your base speed changes to match that of the form you assume. If the form grants a swim or burrow speed, you maintain the ability to breathe if you are swimming or burrowing. The DC for any of these abilities equals your DC for the polymorph spell used to change you into that form.

In addition to these benefits, you gain any of the natural attacks of the base creature, including proficiency in those attacks. These attacks are based on your base attack bonus, modified by your Strength or Dexterity as appropriate, and use your Strength modifier for determining damage bonuses.

If a polymorph spell causes you to change size, apply the size modifiers appropriately, changing your armor class, attack bonus, Combat Maneuver Bonus, and Stealth skill modifiers. Your ability scores are not modified by this change unless noted by the spell.

Unless otherwise noted, polymorph spells cannot be used to change into specific individuals. Although many of the fine details can be controlled, your appearance is always that of a generic member of that creature’s type. Polymorph spells cannot be used to assume the form of a creature with a template or an advanced version of a creature.

When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body. Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function). Items that require activation cannot be used while you maintain that form. While in such a form, you cannot cast any spells that require material components (unless you have the Eschew Materials or Natural Spell feat), and can only cast spells with somatic or verbal components if the form you choose has the capability to make such movements or speak, such as a dragon. Other polymorph spells might be subject to this restriction as well, if they change you into a form that is unlike your original form (subject to GM discretion). If your new form does not cause your equipment to meld into your form, the equipment resizes to match your new size.

While under the effects of a polymorph spell, you lose all extraordinary and supernatural abilities that depend on your original form (such as keen senses, scent, and darkvision), as well as any natural attacks and movement types possessed by your original form. You also lose any class features that depend upon form, but those that allow you to add features (such as sorcerers that can grow claws) still function. While most of these should be obvious, the GM is the final arbiter of what abilities depend on form and are lost when a new form is assumed. Your new form might restore a number of these abilities if they are possessed by the new form.

You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change your size have no effect on you while you are under the effects of a polymorph spell.

If a polymorph spell is cast on a creature that is smaller than Small or larger than Medium, first adjust its ability scores to one of these two sizes using the following table before applying the bonuses granted by the polymorph spell. (see Table: Ability Adjustments from Size Changes)

So what, exactly, does this mean?

If you wanted to turn your quasit into a balor, you'd do this:

0) lose pretty much everything that they have as a quasit
1) Tiny to medium: +4 Str, -2 Dex
2) make the creature a large size, so accordingly: -1 attacks and AC, -2 fly, -4 stealth, +1 CMs
3) two slams (1d10+Str); use your base attack
4) 40 ft. movement, 90 ft. fly (good), resistances (acid, cold) 10, and darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision
5) ask your GM if you can finagle the immunity to electricity, fire, and poison into some form of resistances
6) it's unclear how DR functions, ask your GM
7) you do not gain: any SLA, flaming body, death throes, vorpal strike, whip mastery, or entangle

Spell-likes you do not receive:
- constant: true seeing, unholy aura
- at will: dominate monster, greater dispel, greater teleport, power word stun, telekinesis
- 3/day: quickened telekinesis
- 1/day: blasphemy, fire storm, implosion, summon

You also don't get: +8 perception, languages, telepathy, hit dice, feats, saves, or anything else associated with it.

It is unclear if you keep the following (though I believe you do):
- at will: detect good, detect magic, invisibility (self only)
- 1/day: cause fear
- 1/week: commune
- telepathy (touch)

You do not keep (that is you lose):
- DR 5/cold iron
- immunity to electricity and poison
- resistance to acid, cold, and fire 10
- change shape ability
- claws, poison, or bite
- fast healing

All told, this makes your quasit's stat block look like this:

Gist of the statblock wrote:

Quasit

CE Large outsider (chaotic, demon, evil, extraplanar)
Init +6; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception +7

DEFENSE
AC 10, touch 10, flat-footed 9 (+1 Dex, -1 size) ask your GM about nAC
hp 16 (3d10)
Fort +1, Ref +4, Will +4
Resist acid 10, cold 10 ask your GM about DR and immunities

OFFENSE
Speed 50 ft., fly 90 ft. (good)
Melee 2 slams +3 (1d10+1)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 6th)
At will—detect good, detect magic, invisibility (self only)
1/day—cause fear (30-foot radius, DC 11)
1/week—commune (six questions)

STATISTICS
Str 12, Dex 12, Con 11, Int 11,Wis 12, Cha 11
Base Atk +3; CMB +2; CMD 13
Feats Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse
Skills Bluff +6, Fly +13, Intimidate +6, Knowledge (planes) +6, Perception +7, Stealth +3
Languages Abyssal, Common

So, long story short, "I'd say yes, but even if you permit this, it's a really sucky balor by most rules we have."

I may have made some errors, there - I've tried to be as thorough and precise as possible, but I provided the text because I can't be perfect (I'm also really tired); I feel like there are more clear rules for nAC and DR than I was able to use, but I am blarging out when I look at the passages, so I've gone with what I can. The following links should help clear things up:

- size rules

-polymorph rules

- polymorph any object

It's possible that your GM will throw you a bone and allow any special attacks, traits, qualities, or abilities that are listed in the listed spells to also be granted by your new form - but that is very much so a GM-based call, and you must talk to the GM before including anything like that, as the spell isn't clear.

Hope that helps!

EDIT: oof. I'd made that AC way too high. Sorry! Corrected, now.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

You could possibly argue that a creature of animal intelligence could have its intelligence boosted to 5 when polymorphed into a typically more intelligent form, but by RAW that only applies to mindless objects

(Obviously not relevant in this case, all its stats are above 10 anyway (after strength mod) so it's on its own)


Renata Maclean wrote:

You could possibly argue that a creature of animal intelligence could have its intelligence boosted to 5 when polymorphed into a typically more intelligent form, but by RAW that only applies to mindless objects

(Obviously not relevant in this case, all its stats are above 10 anyway (after strength mod) so it's on its own)

Yeah, I'd probably allow that, but it's not RAW - that's why I had to go back and mention "upon re-reading..." bits.

And speaking, of, there's a typo or two I need to correct.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Well if it DID give you all the abilities of your new form, you could just permanently PAO your pseudodragon familliar permanently to a great wyrm copper dragon. Nope. Even then, having your permanently polymtphed as per FotD (III?) is not something to sneeze at.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Greater Polymorph only gives access to FotD I
So a medium dragon, with breath weapon


I'd suggest it's a bit more vague than that, even RAW... but if you're going with spell-imitation, then yes.

(I'd suggest that you probably could do the whole "like that, except even bigger" but it seems like it's going to be a sucky version of the bigger dragon, much like the rather disappointing balor, up there.)


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Tacticslion wrote:
it's a really sucky balor

True, but think of it as a status symbol:

"This is Baldrick, my Balor butler. Do you have a Balor? They're very reliable, once you've taught them who's master."

As long as no-one notices your Balor only has 16 hit points, everybody is going to respect you.


XD

"Why doesn't it burn everything it touches?!"

"I've trained it very well."

Re, glibness: Doesn't matter if it's not on the spell list, "y'r a wizard, Harry," you'll find a way to get and use it.


Oh, I didn't make it clear, but you also lose the tiny-creature benefits. That means you take:
>> - 2 to attack and AC
>> + 2 CMB and CMD
>> - 4 fly
>> - 8 stealth

I actually included all of this, except for the CMB/CMD, so that needs to be updated, too (and should be +5 CMB and CMD 16). Sorry!

EDIT: man, that sentence wasn't clear. XD


Tacticslion wrote:
it's a really sucky balor
Matthew Downie wrote:

True, but think of it as a status symbol:

"This is Baldrick, my Balor butler. Do you have a Balor? They're very reliable, once you've taught them who's master."

As long as no-one notices your Balor only has 16 hit points, everybody is going to respect you.

So I've just totally incorporated this into my SF game...

(He's very old.)

XD


He also doesn't explode when you stab him. So that's a bonus.


And now...

... ahem...

... updated PF statistics!

Here we go:

=============================

Quasit-> "Balor"
This winged fiend’s horned head and fanged visage present a paragon of demonic form.
CE Large outsider (chaotic, demon, evil, extraplanar)
Init +5; Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception +7
DEFENSE
AC 15, touch 10, flat-footed 14 (+1 Dex, +5 natural AC, -1 size)
hp 16 (3d10)
Fort +1, Ref +4, Will +4
DR 15/cold iron and good; Immunities poison; Resist energy (acid, cold, electricity, fire) 10
OFFENSE
Speed 50 ft., fly 90 (good)
Melee 2 slams +3 (1d10+1)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft.
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 6th; +6 concentration)
> At-willdetect good, detect magic, invisibility (self only)
> 1/daycause fear (30 ft. radius, DC 11)
> 1/weekcommune (six questions)
STATISTICS
Str 12, Dex 12, Con 11, Int 11, Wis 12, Cha 11
Base Atk +3; CMB +5; CMD 16
Feats Improved Initiative, Weapon Finesse
Skills Bluff +6, Fly +13, Intimidate +6, Knowledge (planes) +6, Perception +7, Stealth +3
Languages Abyssal, Common

=============================

... so I think that's correct. I ad-hoc'd the natural AC - a balor has higher (+16), but I guestimated based on the normal implied (but not specified) limits of polymorph, even though I totally gave them the balor DR (it allows him to live past a single attack).

Anyway: hope it helps!


And now...

... ahem...

... updated SF statistics! (My best guess!)

Here we go:

=============================

SF Balor Butler (magically changed quasit)
This winged fiend’s horned head and fanged visage present a paragon of demonic form.
CE Large outsider (chaotic, demon, evil, extraplanar; polymorphed)
Init +5, Senses darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision; Perception +9
DEFENSE; HP 16
EAC 16, KAC 17
Fort +1, Ref +3, Will +5
Resist energy (acid, cold, electricity, fire) 10, immune (poison)
OFFENSE
Speed 50 ft., fly 90 (good)
Melee 2 slam +2 (4 bludgeoning)
Spell-Like Abilities (CL 6th; +6 concentration)
> At-will – detect magic, invisibility (self only)
> 1/day – fear (30 ft. radius, DC 11)
STATISTICS
Str +1, Dex +1, Con +0, Int +0, Wis +1, Cha +0
Skills Bluff +6, Fly +9, Intimidate +6, Knowledge (planes) +6, Perception +9, Stealth +6
Gear butler suit (AbadarCorp travel suit, silver)
Languages Abyssal, Common
SPECIAL

Commune with the Abyss (Sp)
Once per week, the butler can commune with nameless abyssal forces to gain all sorts of information. When it does so, it gains six questions that it can have answered with “yes” or “no” or “unclear” – depending on the knowledge of the sources contacted (though, generally speaking, it can be assumed to be a very powerful and knowledgeable entity with many connections). In cases where a one-word answer would be misleading or contrary to the source’s interests, a short five-word-or-less phrase can be used instead (though tending toward the above three answers). This ability, at best, provides information to aid decisions – the entities involved structure their answers to further their own purposes. If the butler lags, discusses the answers, or does anything else, the effect ends and is lost.

Detect Good (Sp)
The butler can, as a standard action, sense the presence of goodness in other creatures, objects, or locations in a 60 foot cone. The information revealed depends entirely on how long you study a particular area or subject.
- 1st round: the presence or absences of good
- 2nd round: the number of good auras (creatures, items, locations); if the strongest good
alignment has an overwhelming aura or higher, because of the butler’s evil subtype, it is
stunned for 1 round and it can’t use this ability for 1d4 rounds.
- 3rd round: the power and location of each aura; if an aura is outside your line of sight, the butler
discerns its direction, but not its exact location

Creature/Object : Aura Power (none; faint; moderate; strong; overwhelming) wrote:


  • aligned creature or object : aura (CR 4 or less; CR 10 or less; CR 25 or less; CR 50 or less; CR 51 or higher)
  • aligned undead : aura ( - ; CR 2 or less; CR 8 or less; CR 20 or less; CR 21 or higher)
  • aligned outsider or class aligned with divinity : aura (-; CR 1 or less; CR 4 or less; CR 10 or less; CR 11 or higher)
  • aligned item or spell (level 5 or less; level 10 or less; level 15 or less; level 20 or less; level 21 or higher)

=============================

Dark Archive

www.yzzerdd.com wrote:
Can I turn my quasit into a balor for a week or more?

Thanks for all the replies!

Follow up: first off, I failed to mention, my quasit/balor is a familiar: is it STILL my familiar after polymorph? Does it gain/lose familiar abilities at this point? Do you "lose" your familiar and have to get a new one?

Is there a "better" form to PaO my familiar into, that doesn't lose most of his good abilities? Seems like there should be a way to improve your familiar, without losing most of the abilities that make it a good familiar to begin with...

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Rules Questions / Polymorph any object on quasit? All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Rules Questions