Special Materials and Hellknight Plate?

[Murdock Mudeater]

Hellknight Plate is listed as being Masterwork Fullplate, with the Masterworking cost included in the profile (and the reduced armor check penalty also included in the profile). If I want a special material which normally includes the price of masterworking, how is the cost determined? Or is Hellknight Plate just ineligible for special materials which include masterworking costs? Can existing Masterwork Fullplate be upgraded to Hellknight Plate?
Hellknight Plate

Ideally seeking an FAQ answer.

[Chess Pwn]

probably use the guideline of large material that includes masterwork.

Masterwork isn't normally increased for larger weapons, but if the weapon is mithral that is masterwork then that price is increased.

So I'd think it's that you just end up needing to pay the masterwork price twice.

[Murdock Mudeater]

Chess Pwn wrote:

probably use the guideline of large material that includes masterwork.

Masterwork isn't normally increased for larger weapons, but if the weapon is mithral that is masterwork then that price is increased.

So I'd think it's that you just end up needing to pay the masterwork price twice.

Mithral get's really goofy, since the profile for Hellknight Plate includes the masterworking ACP modifier. So does Mirthral Hellknight Plate reduce the ACP by 3, as written, or would it reduce by 2 (since it's already reduced by masterworking)?

And it would be fair to describe Hellknight Plate as named non-magical armor. So one could argue that it just isn't eligible for any special materials (can still magically enhance it).

[GM Rednal]

Well, Hero Lab is usually pretty good about this stuff... and it has Hellknight Plate as merely a specific type of mundane armor, quite eligible for special materials. The Mithral version I made tells me it should be +9 AC, Max Dex of +3, ACP of -3, and 25% ASF.

[Murdock Mudeater]

GM Rednal wrote:

Well, Hero Lab is usually pretty good about this stuff... and it has Hellknight Plate as merely a specific type of mundane armor, quite eligible for special materials. The Mithral version I made tells me it should be +9 AC, Max Dex of +3, ACP of -3, and 25% ASF.

Hmm...so what cost does it give? (I don't have hero lab).

[Nefreet]

One sure fire way to not have your question FAQ'd is to put "FAQ Request" in your thread title.

The Stickied Post at the Top of the Forum wrote:

I want a rule changed. Should I start a thread and ask people to FAQ-click it?

No. The FAQ is not to be used to get rules changed. Posts attempting to use the FAQ for this purpose will be cleared from the FAQ queue.

Should I put "FAQ request" or “Designer response needed” in my post or thread?
No.

[GM Rednal]

The cost is the standard mithral price for heavy armor (9000 GP), which gives us a total cost of 11,000 for Mithral Hellknight Plate.

[Murdock Mudeater]

Nefreet wrote:

One sure fire way to not have your question FAQ'd is to put "FAQ Request" in your thread title.

The Stickied Post at the Top of the Forum wrote:

I want a rule changed. Should I start a thread and ask people to FAQ-click it?

No. The FAQ is not to be used to get rules changed. Posts attempting to use the FAQ for this purpose will be cleared from the FAQ queue.

Should I put "FAQ request" or “Designer response needed” in my post or thread?
No.

Removed.

[Gisher]

Nefreet wrote:

One sure fire way to not have your question FAQ'd is to put "FAQ Request" in your thread title.

The Stickied Post at the Top of the Forum wrote:

I want a rule changed. Should I start a thread and ask people to FAQ-click it?

No. The FAQ is not to be used to get rules changed. Posts attempting to use the FAQ for this purpose will be cleared from the FAQ queue.

Should I put "FAQ request" or “Designer response needed” in my post or thread?
No.

It isn't a "sure fire" way to not have your question FAQ'd.

[Murdock Mudeater]

GM Rednal wrote:

The cost is the standard mithral price for heavy armor (9000 GP), which gives us a total cost of 11,000 for Mithral Hellknight Plate.

Hmm, so it's paying for masterwork twice. So, curious now, how much do the other types of Hellknight Plate cost on Herolab (Like the other materials)?

[Ascalaphus]

Devs like us to start FAQ requests with a good canonical question in the opening post, and getting a lot of people to click the FAQ button on it helps to get it ahead in the queue. But for something that's explicitly meant as an FAQ thread, putting FAQ in the title annoys them.

[GM Rednal]

Adamantine is noted at 17,000 GP. Elysian Bronze is 5,000 GP. Living Steel is 3,500 GP. In general, it looks to be using the normal cost of any given material for heavy armor.

[Murdock Mudeater]

GM Rednal wrote:

Adamantine is noted at 17,000 GP. Elysian Bronze is 5,000 GP. Living Steel is 3,500 GP. In general, it looks to be using the normal cost of any given material for heavy armor.

Thanks. Does it give Dragonhide as an option? I'm curious on that one because the cost is directly related to masterworking.

[GM Rednal]

It does not - Dragonhide is noted to not be valid with that armor. (Although if you do it anyway, the cost is 4,150 GP)

Of course, Hero Lab is not perfect, and should not be taken as an authoritative source... although they are pretty good at getting things fixed if something seems like a legit bug.

I think you could argue Hellknight Plate either way, actually, which feels like more of a problem with the item descriptions than anything else. "Stuff that applies to Full Plate should apply because it says it's a special type of Full Plate" has at least some merits as an argument, as does "Stuff that applies to Full Plate shouldn't apply because this is a special type of Full Plate and what works for normal armor may not work for it".

Personally, I'd probably allow anything that could be done to Full Plate to be done to Hellknight Plate. Special materials are expensive enough for heavy armor as it is, and since characters wearing armor can normally benefit from them, I don't see a problem with allowing it.