Versatile Design

[Randolfin]

With the new weapon mods, can I use versatile design to get Manyshot with a crossbow by putting it in the bow weapon group?

What about putting a bow into the crossbow group and using it as a bolt ace for dex to dmg?

Zen archer flurrying with crossbows?

Is it really intended that you can spend 2000g for such things?

[John Murdock]

the weapon is just considered to be part of that weapon group and many shot say only bow can use it, it do not say it is considered to be that kind of weapon so i would say no you cannot put versatile design to a crossbow to get manyshot or a bow to get bolt ace.

as i see the magic property is for fighter to be more versatile with their weapon choice so they still get their better bonus (or only bonus if they choose too many advance weapon training)

[Randolfin]

John Murdock wrote:

the weapon is just considered to be part of that weapon group and many shot say only bow can use it, it do not say it is considered to be that kind of weapon so i would say no you cannot put versatile design to a crossbow to get manyshot or a bow to get bolt ace.

as i see the magic property is for fighter to be more versatile with their weapon choice so they still get their better bonus (or only bonus if they choose too many advance weapon training)

How do you define bow?

Btw I too think its meant for fighter to be more versatile, but I see some people arguing the other cases.

[John Murdock]

for me the definition of a bow would be something that you need to hold it in 2 hand to use it that fire arrow (not bolt) have a string

[Lutorius]

How does Versatile Design work with a spear put in the Heavy Blades group? Does it remove reach from the spear? does it change the damage dice for the spear? Does it work with Weapon Focus (Greatsword)?

[Wonderstell]

Lutorius wrote:

How does Versatile Design work with a spear put in the Heavy Blades group?

It's treated as part of the Heavy Blades group. You can now use that spear with any class features that calls out Heavy Blades (such as Weapon Training: Heavy Blades), and feats that specify weapons from that weapon group (such as Swordplay Style).

Lutorius wrote:

Does it remove reach from the spear?

Nope.

Lutorius wrote:

does it change the damage dice for the spear?

Nope.

Lutorius wrote:

Does it work with Weapon Focus (Greatsword)?

Nope. Unless you had Martial Versatility, which allows you to treat any weapon in the same Weapon Group as having specific feats.

[Lutorius]

So the best use of this modification for a paladin would be what? Making a 2h weapon a shield as well?

[Lutorius]

Making a greatsword piercing or bludgeoning?

[Wonderstell]

Lutorius wrote:

So the best use of this modification for a paladin would be what? Making a 2h weapon a shield as well?

Lutorius wrote:

Making a greatsword piercing or bludgeoning?

Versatile Design does absolutely nothing unless you have an ability that only works with a specific weapon group.

It does not allow you to deal Piercing or Bludgeoning*, and it does not allow you to make a 2h weapon into a shield**.

Paladins have no class features that are dependent on Weapon Groups, so they don't inherently benefit from a Versatile Design Weapon. There are some Paladins that would benefit, but that is wholly dependent on their feat choices.

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*You could use the Weapon Versatility feat for that.

**Unhindering Shield and Shield Brace allows you to wield a 2h weapon and a shield at the same time.

[Lutorius]

Taking a 2H Spear and adding it to the Blades, Light group doesn't allow it to be wielded like a 1H weapon for use with a shield in the off-hand then?

[LordKailas]

Lutorius wrote:

Taking a 2H Spear and adding it to the Blades, Light group doesn't allow it to be wielded like a 1H weapon for use with a shield in the off-hand then?

I think the existence of the tribal group precludes doing this.

Both the great club and dagger are part of the tribal weapon group. If what you're suggesting worked. Then you should be able to use a greatclub in one hand and a shield in the other even without modifying the greatclub in any way.

[Wonderstell]

Lutorius wrote:

Taking a 2H Spear and adding it to the Blades, Light group doesn't allow it to be wielded like a 1H weapon for use with a shield in the off-hand then?

Nope. Versatile Design does absolutely nothing by itself.

[blahpers]

Wonderstell is correct. All versatile design does is let you use a weapon with abilities that only work with weapons from a weapon group that normally doesn't include said weapon. It doesn't modify the actual properties of the weapon in any way other than increasing the proficiency level required to wield it. A medium greatsword with versatile design (close) is still a two-handed weapon that does 1d10 (19-20/x2) slashing damage. The only difference is that it is now an exotic weapon that, e.g., can be used in a brawler's flurry.

In general, words like "bow" and "crossbow" refer to weapons that are named "<qualifier> bow" or "<qualifier> crossbow", not weapons in any particular weapon group. References to fighter weapon groups are generally called out as being to fighter weapon groups.